Pramas on 4E and New Gamers

[hong]

I think you underestimate new players.

Among the gamers, most potential new players are already used to generate characters for computer games. That includes picking a class from many. With or withour reading about all the classes in detail.

Those who come from the Fantasy reading area, well, they are used to reading hundreds of pages.

It is really easy to make a 1st level character in D&D.

1. Decide what you want to do in a fight. Think of WoW.

2. Pick that class.

3. Pick 2 of 4 at-will powers, 1 of 3-4 encounter powers, and 1 of 3-4 daily powers. Again, think of WoW.

4. Pick your feat. 9 times out of 10, this should be the one the PHB recommends.

In a world where WoW informs the hoi polloi's mental picture of RPGs, the PHB is quite easy to read and understand.

The _DMG_ is the one that goes to great lengths to deconstruct the difference between p&p gaming and CRPGs.

 

[hong]

People still have to figure out what these 832 pages are about and if it will be any fun for them.

That's why Chapter 1 of the PHB is there, and why the book is in big font with lots of pretty pictures.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

There are several instances of "See page XX" in the DMG. So it seems they want both.

Out of curiosity, if anyone knows, how in the world does this happen? How does a manuscript head out the door without a final global search for the string "XX"?

 

[delericho]

Yes. For some reason, ppl are conflating "I must have exhaustive knowledge of the rules" with "I know enough to play a 1st level character". Maybe they are operating in a bubble.

When someone new to the game sees the 832-pages of the core rulebooks in the store, they don't know that large sections can be skipped before starting play. The perception is that those are the rules that need to be understood before play can begin.

And the perception isn't that far from the truth - before a group can begin playing, someone has to read more than a hundred pages of rules text, the various options have to be explained to the players (or read by the players themselves), characters have to be created, an adventure has to be generated....

And then they get to start having fun.

Alternately, they can insert the disc into their Playstation (X-Box, Wii), and get playing right away. The controls will either be intuitive enough for them to work out, or the game will have a built-in tutorial to take them into the game proper. Tough choice.

 

[xechnao]

That's why Chapter 1 of the PHB is there, and why the book is in big font with lots of pretty pictures.

And with these you get at a glance if the 832 pages rules will be fun and worth it for you?
So it could be easily as many as 10000 or as low as 10 and it would not make a difference, no? As long as we have big font, pictures and chapter 1 the volume and price of the manual are irrelevant.

 

[Fenes]

I think Pramas has not much of an idea what kind of optimisation, planning, and reading forms the average online gaming experience. There's all this "oh, poor new gamer kid getting critically hit by wall of text" lamentation, while that "poor gamer kid" is probably discussing the merits of various talent trees and combat tactics on his WoW guild forum in between reading up on the latest raid blue print.

Goven how wide-spread computer and video games are, I doubt that D&D needs a lot more "basic boxes". What might be much better to attract new players are advertising in game magazines, and running demo games - maybe online demo games.

 

[hong]

When someone new to the game sees the 832-pages of the core rulebooks in the store, they don't know that large sections can be skipped before starting play. The perception is that those are the rules that need to be understood before play can begin.

When someone new to the game walks into a game store, they will see dozens of games with 300+ page rulebooks around them. The assumption will therefore be that they know these games have 300+ page rulebooks, unless they have never been into a game store in their life. Furthermore, these days you can even see RPGs sold in mainstream bookstores, so the concept of a 300+ page rulebook can't be that odd.

And this is precisely why, when you actually open the books, they're laid out in a manner that's much more welcoming than 3E or previous versions. All the text is in a big, easy-to-read font, there are lots of pretty pictures, and the writing is clear and easy to understand. None of the wall-to-wall text cribbed from an accounting textbook that you found before.

And the perception isn't that far from the truth - before a group can begin playing, someone has to read more than a hundred pages of rules text, the various options have to be explained to the players (or read by the players themselves), characters have to be created, an adventure has to be generated....

Presumably these newbies will still have enough brains to know that if they are going to play a human-mediated version of WoW, someone is going to have to be the computer. And hence, they will allow for that fact. And there will be newbies who either played D&D before but left it, or are joining an existing group.

And then they get to start having fun.

Which might be why 4E goes to such great lengths to cut down the chargen minigame, and why the DMG talks about what to do if you have limited prep time as the DM.

Alternately, they can insert the disc into their Playstation (X-Box, Wii), and get playing right away. The controls will either be intuitive enough for them to work out, or the game will have a built-in tutorial to take them into the game proper. Tough choice.

It's quite amazing that, with the ADD-afflicted generation of kids these days, console games haven't destroyed all other forms of recreation.

 

[hong]

And with these you get at a glance if the 832 pages rules will be fun and worth it for you?

See, this is why the concept of "browsing" was invented.

So it could be easily as many as 10000 or as low as 10 and it would not make a difference, no? As long as we have big font, pictures and chapter 1 the volume and price of the manual are irrelevant.

The cost of the books is a couple of console games. Just because existing D&D gamers are cheap, doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't have disposable income.

 

[xechnao]

It's quite amazing that, with the ADD-afflicted generation of kids these days, console games haven't destroyed all other forms of recreation.

Who says they haven't?

 

[hong]

Who says they haven't?

Let me tell you about our latest line of tinfoil headwear.