Settembrini
First Post
MerricB said:
This is still wrong, on several levels, no matter how often people say this.
I bet €100 that a first level AD&D Fighter has MORE choices for his course of action than any 4e first level character.
Pramas on 4E and New Gamers
- Thread starter CaptainChaos
- Start date
This is still wrong, on several levels, no matter how often people say this.
I bet €100 that a first level AD&D Fighter has MORE choices for his course of action than any 4e first level character.
Settembrini said:
In truth, I'd say they have the same number of choices - as many as the DM and player can come up with. (See PAGE 42 of the 4e DMG).
Taken as defined mechanical choices, your 1st level AD&D fighter can (please add any I miss), and assuming you do want to attack your opponent in some way...
* Charge
* Attack with Sword
* Attack with Bow
* Overbear
* Grapple
* Pummel
* (Disarm... is that only in UA, or is it in the 1E DMG as well?... of course, some of the unarmed combat rules are a bit byzantine...)
Your 4E Fighter can:
* Charge
* Attack with Sword
* Attack with Bow
* Bull Rush
* Grab
* Use At Will Power #1
* Use At Will Power #2
* Use Encounter Power
* Use Daily Power
Imagination increases both lists accordingly.
Cheers!
Samuel Leming
First Post
The way I played AD&D the options were mostly open ended, bounded only by the situation at hand. You could try anything though your chance of success could be very low.Settembrini said:
If you have the same kind of DM running 4e, then your options are just as open ended. If you're not playing that way, then you're not really playing D&D anyway.
You're both right and wrong on this one.
Sam
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
I agree that reading through the powers felt... difficult, if you wanted to get an over-view of what they do. But putting them in a separate chapter wouldn't have improved anything - I even had to turn to get the gist of them!MerricB said:
But the moment I am going to actually create a character (especially a high level one), the organization feels a lot more useful. I can just stick to the class I'm interested in and note down the powers I want. No page-flipping between class description, to feat list (non-spellcaster and spellcaster), spell list (spellcaster only) to spell description (spellcaster only).
The only annoying thing is: For creating higher level characters, I need the DMG table to see how many powers of which level I have. (The PHB table describes the advances, but the DMG table describes the end result, which is more helpful for "instant high level characters".)
delericho
Legend
The problem with the organisation of the powers will probably be magnified once we have a few sourcebooks adding to the number of powers. It will be interesting to see how WotC will solve this issue.
Of course, the best solution will be an electronic database of all the powers, sorted by class, type, level and whatever other criteria the user wishes. Hopefully, the DDI will have that feature online before too long...
Of course, the best solution will be an electronic database of all the powers, sorted by class, type, level and whatever other criteria the user wishes. Hopefully, the DDI will have that feature online before too long...
Settembrini
First Post
Samuel Leming said:
So David Noonan is DMing D&D wrong = not playing D&D at all?
What I´ve seen is "Power announcement + die roll" (which is even lamer than when us 10 year olds were playing "I go to him and take a swing"-AD&D), and there are structural reasons for it. Most powers are way better than any ad-hoc stuff you could pull off.YMMV, but Noonan and WotC support my point!
@Merric: I was actually thinking of the Complete Fighter´s Handbook.
- Called Shots
- Smashing something being held
- bypassing Armor
- Carving Inititals etc.
- Disarm
- Grab
- Hold Attack
- Parry
- Pin
- Pull/Trip
- Sap
- Shield-Rush
- Surprise Maneuvre
Those were the MECHANICAL options, which were implicitly (some explicitly) in 1e too.
If you´d compare 3e to 4e you´ll see it more directly. Best example:
In all former editions of D&D, you could disarm someone. In 4e it´s not a standard option, but a result of a power. Thusly, most DMs won´t allow it.
Noonan certainly doesn´t.
I only agree with the expanded glossary/index thing.
I find the 4th Ed PHB to be the only RPG rules I've read that did not leave me with a dozen questions or so.
In fact, I find you have to really try and misinterpret things in 4th Ed, the problems and questions I've seen posted on these boards and others about 4th Ed rule/mechanics etc, simply do not exist for me.
I find the 4th Ed PHB to be the only RPG rules I've read that did not leave me with a dozen questions or so.
In fact, I find you have to really try and misinterpret things in 4th Ed, the problems and questions I've seen posted on these boards and others about 4th Ed rule/mechanics etc, simply do not exist for me.
Settembrini said:
And don't forget Wounded and Useless hp and Damage Points (for armour), boy, were those fun…
