PrC Chainwhirler

[Kyamsil]

The Chain Lurge explained & some feedback desired on the final balance of the class

Do I understand you right? you get two 5ft steps plus full attack action but the movement provokes AoOs? That's not too powerful. There are many PrClass abilities with much more power.

I like that class. I have to admit I hate PrClasses, but I actually consider using that one.

I'm happy to see that at least a few players like this prestige class. I hope to design and get uploaded a website with this prestige class, other things of my design and full information on my Forgotten Realms campaign. Well, the campaign hasn't started yet, but I have many ideas, for example, to have the website with the current prestige classes, feats, house rules, etc that will apply so players can get info when they want.

The Chain Lurge is more powerful that it seems:
1- With a chain weapon you have 10' reach and you are a master of tripping and get lots of Attacks of Opportunity against people that move into your 10' reach. By using trip as your attack option in the Attack of Opportunity, you make your opponent fall prone so he needs a move equivalent action to stand up, but since he has already made a move (which provoked the AoO) he can stand but can come no closer, or in some cases can't even stand.
2- Taking that into account and the fact that you get a 5' move each round if you make a full attack, you can maneuver yourself into a position in which you force your opponents to provoke AoO from you. How? Let's see. Suppose that you have some enemies at 15' distance. You Chain Lurge before moving to a square adjacent to you that is closer to them. If you do so while being threatened you provoke AoO but since they are 15' from your original square and 10' from the square you are lurging into, they don't threaten you if they don't have reach weapons. As they are 10' from the square you are lurging into you can attack them for having 10' reach (likely making them trip to fall prone). Regardless of the success or failure of your attacks, after you make them you balance yourself in your square (You have not moved so you are in the same square that you occupied at the beggining of your action) and as you have made a full attack action get your usual 5' movement (likely to distance yourself from your prone opponents). So, you get to attack at 15' without moving and then take a step back so you are now at 20'. The only thing they can do in this round is to get closer (move equivalent to stand up and move equivalent to close to you), but they provoke an attack of opportunity by doing so, so you likely will trip them again. The only option they have to stand and attack you is to make a partial charge, but you also get an AoO from that and they will have worse AC so better to you.

Really, I thought that this was the better ability of the class, and the one who would make the people say "Chain Lurge is uber powerful", but instead, all thought of it as a secondary ability that almost didn't matter. Perhaps now that I tried to explain its full effect some will come saying that it ought to go or the class is too powerful. Any comments?

I would like to know if you think this class is balanced, really. I plan to offer it to player use in my campaign. As a DM I know that if someone with this has access to other feats as Cleave, Great Cleave and specially Stand Still this is going to blow the roof off. I also think that this class combined with the Ki Whirlwind of the Weapon Master is something to take into account. I know of these problems but, I like this creation too much to simply abandon it so if you have some suggestions on how to improve it or you think that the class per se is balanced (don't consider the rant I did in this paragraph), please let me know

Thanks to all who managed to endure this extremely long rant post

 

[Star Gazer]

Lurge = Lunge?

When you type 'Lurge', are you really meaning to type 'Lunge: to quickly step forward, often in an attempt to extend reach'? Just a bit of a nitpick, but I can't help it.

Something you have to take into account is the fact that the damage levels on Chains are not what the damage levels on swords are, which makes things slightly better, but the powers that you describe are a bit powerful, so may I suggest something quite radical?

Redo the prerequisites.

Select a minimum level at which you would like to make this a PrC available to a specific class (currently seems like Fighter, but Rogue is also a possibility) and design a set of requirements that would mandate total devotion to the goal of becoming a Chainwhirler (7th level doesn't seem inappropriate). Your available choices for prerequisites are not limited to just feats and skills (though those are important, don't get me wrong). The only things you shouldn't use as a prerequisite for a PrC is a Class or a stated specific level.

BAB is a good start, Expertise and some of the associated feats is another, as well as two weapon fighting and/or ambidexterity. If you wanted to be really sneaky, you could mandate that the character had to have the ability to Sneak Attack before being elegible for this class, in additon to having the BAB of, say, a 6th level Fighter. Chains have always had a bit of a 'seedy' reputation, and a level or two of Rogue is not inappropriate.

Remember to count all the feats available to a fighter or a rogue so you don't run into the pitfall of incorporating so many feats into the prerequisites that for a 10 level PrC, the requirements can only reasonably be met by someone of 15th level or higher, that's something that not many people will catch.

I know this is only generalized advice, but it looks like you are well on your way to developing an interesting PrC.

My 2bits.

 

[Kyamsil]

Thanks for your advice. I think you are right, it is lunge, not lurge (sorry but I am spanish and sometimes I make such mistakes)

Anyway, let's see what level do you need to classify for chainwhirler if you devote to it, with the prerequisites as they are:

Whirlwind Attack, Improved Trip, Lightning Reflexes and Exotic Weapon Proficency(any chain). Counting prerequisites for these feats you have to take 8 feats to qualify. Also you must have 13 Dex, 13 Int and at least +4 Base Attack Bonus.

By the number of feats, it goes beyond the possibilties of single class PCs that don't get Bonus Feats.

Fighter: A single class fighter must be 8th level to qualify, or 6th level if human but, the human fighter must be at least 7th level to have the requisite ranks in the skills for they are cross-class for him.

Psychic Warrior: A single class Psychic Warrior must be 12th level or 11th level if human to qualify but has the plus of having Weapon Specialization with the chain, the obvious choice. He has to get Weapon Focus (chain) as early as possible to get the free 6th level specialization so has to delay the other feats somewhat.

Multiclass Rogue/Fighter: A Rogue 3/Fighter 6 or human Rogue 2/Fighter 6 also meets the prerequisites.

Multiclass Fighter/Psychic Warrior: human fighter 4/Psychic Warrior 3 (for the ranks in cross class skills Perform and Use Rope.) or another race F6/PW 2.

Seems that you must be a fighter to qualify that is right with me. You can take levels of other classes but F6 is almost a need to get the requisite feats to qualify for the class. I must say that I see a lot more possibilities to the Fighter/Psychic Warrior for the possibility to get Stand Still. If you delay your Psychic Warrior level until you get Weapon Focus (chain you get the Specialization for free). A human F4/PW6 may have Weapon Specialization and Stand Still before getting full into the class, and if anyone can benefit from the class abilities it is someone with stand still.