Pre-gen adventure assistance needed

Yeah. Only Escape from Sembia is a 4e adventure. The others are 3.5e and are Living Greyhawk mods.

Escape from Sembia is also rather deadly (I think they were overcompensating from early rumors about unkillable PCs).

I would just make something up or adapt an adventure that you're more familiar with (of any edition or game setting) and just substitute the combats and reskin the monsters (i.e. use their stats, but call them something else).

Just remember to keep the xp budget for encounters close to 100xp per PC. Escape from Sembia goes way higher than this, but it's also known as a PC killer.
 

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That's an unenviable position you're in right there, having to demo something you're not a big fan of. Good luck, and good on you for agreeing to do it.
 

First of all, thanks for catching the LG adventures - I wasn't aware that they discontinued LG with 4E (I'm not into RPGA), and the guy assured me they were all 4E (he probably doesn't play D&D at all, so it all looks similar to him). I haven't had the chance to look at the adventures yet myself.

Escape from Sembia is also rather deadly (I think they were overcompensating from early rumors about unkillable PCs).
Any suggestions as to how to make it less deadly?

I would just make something up or adapt an adventure that you're more familiar with (of any edition or game setting) and just substitute the combats and reskin the monsters (i.e. use their stats, but call them something else).
I can work with Escape of Sembia, I guess. I'll probably mod it a bit to reduce combat encounters and add some more RP.

Just remember to keep the xp budget for encounters close to 100xp per PC. Escape from Sembia goes way higher than this, but it's also known as a PC killer.
That's a good tip. Thanks!
 
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Any suggestions as to how to make it less deadly?

If you stick to the 100xp per PC encounter budget, you should be fine.

Escape from Sembia also has a list of random magic items in the back that you can hand out to the PCs if you want. It's a little power increase, but not much, just enough to help out and make things interesting.
 

I'd take the adventure and be brutal about making it easier - halve the hit points on the monsters, halve numbers of monsters, lower skill DCs by 5 or more. If you're finding the PCs are plowing through it you can restore some monsters and hit points for the later parts, but for a one-off with newbies I really don't think there's such a thing as 'too easy'.
 

I just got back, and I thought I'd post my thoughts on the adventure (and on 4E in general).

I pre-generated the PCs using Character Builder this morning. Overall, while there are still a few bugs (it doesn't show languages on the character sheet; some power cards are messed up in print; it doesn't auto-buy armor for characters), it's a great tool and it would be invaluable to me as a DM if I were to DM 4E (which I am not going to do). The party consisted of a half-elf cleric, halfling rogue, dwarf wizard, human paladin, and eladrin fighter.

I then selected minis for the PCs, minis for encounters, dungeon tiles for the first encounter, and fantastic location maps for the third, fourth, and fifth encounter. I also made a few notes on the adventure.

The above two activities took me about 2 hours, which is, IMO, too much prep time for a pre-generated adventure, with all the tools at my disposal. Still, it sure beats 20+ hours of prep time I usually need for my own games.

Five people showed up to play. Some had to leave during the game, but others jumped in to replace them.

As for the adventure itself, I made some small modifications. Instead of placing the PCs directly in an inn waiting for the cobbler to light the torch and then witness his arrest, I had the PCs role-play information gathering, and they noticed that the cobbler's house was being watched, so they were ready for trouble.

The first encounter worked nicely; I reduced the number of guards to 2 and halved their hit points, but left the agent's hit points as is. The players used a combination of role-play, clever tricks, and a few well-placed powers (e.g. sleep) and managed to complete the encounter pretty unscathed. One of the guards was dropped unconscious, the agent was tied up and pushed under a market stall, and the other guard was disarmed and then ran away to get more buddies.

The cobbler survived, so the party entered his house and they began the escape together. He told them to meet at a ruined keep NW of the city in case they got separated.

The chase that followed next was very fun and filled with role-play, but the skill challenge system itself (get 8 successes before 4 failures) is definitely broken. Even with the low DCs (which I further lowered to 11 due to the fact that they didn't kill the guards, i.e. I figured the pursuit was not as heated), I had to fudge a bit and give them various opportunities to avoid accumulating failures.

So, they escaped the city and met with the cobbler next to the ruined tower (I used the Keep of Fallen Kings map) who informed them that the tower was not empty. The rogue went to investigate and found the hobgoblins, and then returned to report this find to the rest of the party. They made a quick battle plan, circled around, and the battle began.

Despite the fact that I halved the HP of the warcaster and archers and turned soldiers into minions, the fight was VERY close. In particular, the archers are brutal, and the warcaster nearly killed the party rogue in 2 rounds. The PCs used their action points, used second wind, encounter powers, dailies, healing surges, and so on. What was lacking was teamplay, I guess, but, in my experience, even established groups have trouble with that, much less groups of random people who meet at the gaming store.

In the morning, they set out on the road (King's Road map) and were besieged by undead. I made a mistake here and didn't modify this encounter. At all. I wanted to see how the game plays as intended by the designers.

In brief, it sucks. Badly. The combat took forever (12 rounds) and ended with a TPK, and the players were actually relived when they died, since they couldn't stand it anymore. I even fudged a bit by having unded ignore PCs who were hidden in the forest, to give the PCs a chance to recuperate a bit, but in the end, Blazing Skeleton stood triumphant and the entire party was dead. I also ignored the ongoing necrotic and fire damage, since that would have been too brutal.

The adventure is a meat grinder, there's no second thought about it. I really don't see how any party could have survived that undead encounter - and this party had a cleric and a paladin which are both equipped to deal with undead.

Regardless of the difficulty, combat in general is a grind. This was visible in the hobgoblin fight, and painfully visible in the undead fight. A horrible, boring, uninspired grind. Even my worst 3.5 combats, which took 4 hours of real time to resolve 3 rounds, were more dynamic that this 4E combat. If the intent was to streamline the game, the design failed to achieve that goal miserably.

BTW, as the DM, it never took me more than 6 seconds to decide each creature's action and the players were likewise efficient. Monster stat blocks are very usable, but character sheets are not. Power cards could use work.

This was the second 4E game I ran, and I stand by my earlier decision that I don't want anything to do with this edition.
 


Well, a few of us did point out that it was particuarly deadly before you even ran it. Any time I have run Prev 1-1 the party has died in that last encounter as a TPK (and I very much suspect it was designed that way intentionally to demonstrate death and dying).

The character sheets with the preview modules suck but if you used the character generator and printed out power cards for everyone it should have been smoother. I had problems with the char builder printing landscape but portrait worked just fine. The thought that the character builder doesn't autopick armor isn't a bad thing in my book, but I could see where if I wanted to pop out 5 pregens really fast that would be helpful to not purchase gear for all of them.

I have found after 7 months of playing and running living forgotten realms games, that each combat encounter takes roughly one hour to complete, and each skill challenge anywhere from 20-40 minutes, depending on complexity. I too dislike the current skill challenge system but after a while you learn how to run with it so that it's more of a guideline than hard and fast... and things tend to loosen up at the table with that (e.g. your street chase scene).

The big reason I like 4E over 3.5 is exactly what you point out. It takes me very little time, even with multiple combatants, to figure out what the bad guys are going to do each turn. I don't mean to ruffle feathers here, but have you played the game with someone who has run a lot of 4E games yet? I have found that the more familiar everyone is with the game, the faster and more fun the game is at the table. The guidelines I listed above are hardly what I see in my home 4e game, we run combat far faster because everyone is very familiar with what their characters do and how to do it... plus teamwork (as you mention) is a big part of 4E.

Knowing your character's role in a party and how it meshes with the others is key to success in 4E. If you want to be the loner your going to have a rough time, and the party a rough time too.
 

The street chase was actually quite fun due to creative role-playing, but this had nothing to do with the rules, which are broken. Maybe they'll get the skill challenges right eventually, but I am surprised they let a glaring error such as that one slip into the production version of the rules; it would have been better to omit the system altogether and then publish it in the DDI after it was polished.

The problem with figuring out what the bad guys are doing is that it gets really old really fast. Not that 3.5 had a whole lot more options for the bad guys, but 3.5 combats didn't take nearly as long (in-game). There's no way an encounter with 5 undead that featured the cleric and the paladin would have taken 12 rounds - as quirky as it was, 3.5 turn undead would have made a much bigger difference. Of course, the fact that 4E creatures have so many hit points doesn't exactly add to the fun.

So, it wasn't speed that bothered me and the players, it was repetitiveness, continued inability of the players to actually do anything in the battle, and the fact that they had to hit a run-of-the-mill skeleton 5 times to kill it. They all thought it was ridiculous. They also complained how skeletons should have DR against piercing and slashing weapons and were amazed (in a bad way) that it is possible to sneak attack them or deal critical hit damage to them. Not that it helped.

I haven't played with someone who's run a lot of 4E games, although I'd certainly like to try and see how the game looks from the player's side of the screen. The reason? I don't know a single person playing 4E in Belgrade. People are either playing 3.5, AD&D, or have switched to other systems. Curiously, most of the people who actually like some aspects of 4E seem to have switched to Exalted, which is a system I personally can't stand.

I can appreciate that RPGA players are having fun, since most RPGA modules (I've seen) are designed with tactical play in mind, and I guess teamwork makes a huge difference. It's just... not for me. And most of my players are not team players and would abhorre being forced into using teamwork to survive. Different strokes and all that...
 

It's just... not for me. And most of my players are not team players and would abhorre being forced into using teamwork to survive. Different strokes and all that...

I'm absolutely not bagging on your preferences for game system here. I don't care what you play and just hope that you (or anybody) has fun with the hobby. But I'm a little puzzled about this one bit. I mean, most tabletop RPG's that I've ever played, certainly every edition of D&D that I've ever played, involved a lot of teamwork. I'll grant that 4e builds a lot of synergies into the system between party members of varying roles. It's just difficult for me to image a group that would "abhor using teamwork to survive". Isn't that sort of the point of an adventuring party?
 

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