Precise Shot Feat

[Asmo]

I was under the the impression that you had a - 8 (soft cover) and Precise Shot makes that - 4 and Improved Precise Shot negates all penalities?

Is this how the rules works in Pathfinder, yes?

Asmo

 

[Water Bob]

As far as hitting your ally in in melee, I was using the, albeit optional, rule on page 24 of the 3.5 DMG.

That would consider your ally as "cover" for the bad guy, which is basically what he is, right? I mean, why the -4 penalty? It's to avoid the cover provided by your ally as the two of them swoop and dip, move aside and swing, in the dance called melee.



In tonight's fight, one of the PC's, Caelis, was locked in melee with a zombie-type character. The other PC, Silaigne, wanted to chunk his hunting spear at the zombie-critter.

Normally, Silaigne would need a 10 to hit the zombie. Since the zombie is in melee with Caelis, the -4 penalty applies, making that, for all practical purposes, a 14+ needed to hit the zombie. According to DMG page 24, this means a roll of 1-9 completely misses, a roll of 10-13 means the zombie's cover (which is the PC Caelis*), and a throw of 14+ means the zombie was hit.



*The throw must also beat Caelis' AC. So, if Caelis' has AC 14+, there will be no damage.



Example: Caelis is in melee with the zombie. Silaigne wants to chunck his critter sticker (a hunting spear) at the zombie as the two fight. The zombie has an AC 10, but the throwing into melee penalty makes this an AC 14.

Silaigne makes his attack throw and ends up with a 12 total. This means he missed the zombie but may have hit Caelis. Caelis' has AC 13. So, the spear misses Caelis, too. Had Silaigne thrown a 13, then Caelis would be hit. Had Silaigne made a 14 or better on the throw, then the zombie would have been hit.

 

[Water Bob]

I wouldn't reason too much over it (or other game-defined conditions) because otherwise you'll start getting reasonable arguments from your players about changing when/how conditions should work, usually to their advantage. I would just apply it only when the game says so (although things such as cover are always at least partially subjective).

This. QFT.

 

[Empirate]

Seeing how archers get the short end of the stick in 3E and 3.5 (how's that in Conan, WB?), I'd try and make it easy for them to shoot into melee as much as possible. A chance to hit an ally, even if the chance is small, will deter that whole fighting style.

A step one might want to take is get rid of Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite for archery-related feats (or make sure that as long as a target is within 30', you simply always get the bonus). The only 'point' of PBS (ahem) is that archers need even more feats to be effective - the bonus is more or less negligible, and Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, maybe Manyshot or Far Shot - those are the feats you really NEED to function. Having to take PBS first is like having to take Weapon Focus before you're allowed to take Power Attack. But hey, them's the rules. Grrr...

 

[Sekhmet]

I want to exp Empirate for the 'point' he just made.
I love puns.

 

[Water Bob]

Seeing how archers get the short end of the stick in 3E and 3.5 (how's that in Conan, WB?),...

I think it's the same. I don't know regular D&D well, and my PC Cimmerian barbarians shun bows as "unmanly" weapons. I haven't had a chance to use them in the game yet (since most many Cimmerians feel that way--I'll use them if the PCs go into the Pictish Wilderness, though).

Why do you say archers are hampered? Because ROF is reduced per round from previous editions of D&D?

....I'd try and make it easy for them to shoot into melee as much as possible.

It's always been a hard thing to do in my games (previously in 1E and 2E). I forgot how I used to play it....I think it was, if you missed, you had to take a shot at your ally. Something like that. That made it dicey.

I was amazed when I saw how easy it was in 3.5E.

...A chance to hit an ally, even if the chance is small, will deter that whole fighting style.

Or promote the Precise Shot Feat!

 

[anest1s]

Or promote the Precise Shot Feat!

It doesn't really need promotion, plus this isn't what this feat does.

 

[Empirate]

Why do you say archers are hampered? Because ROF is reduced per round from previous editions of D&D?

Basically, the following:
1. you need a ton of feats to become useful with archery, while you only need Power Attack to mix it up in melee;
2. your damage output will never rival a dedicated meleer's;
3. you need both Dex and Str if you want to hit and deal damage - real-world accurate, but hampering nonetheless;
4. a lot of environmental conditions apply more often to you than to melee (cover, concealment);
5. in confined dungeon environments, you'll have to whip out that rapier sooner or later anyways;
6. making lots of attacks instead of fewer, more powerful attacks means DR is harder to overcome;
7. you can't perform combat maneuvers (trip etc.) with ranged attacks unless you take certain whacky prestige classes;
8. bows are really easy to sunder;
9. lots of damage increasers like Sneak Attack or Skirmish only work so-so on ranged attacks;
10. you don't threaten squares, and you provoke AoOs;
11. (3.5) not a lot of really good feat/class feature comboes to amp it up in the teen levels - you'll fall behind even faster.

That's about it, I think.