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Precocious Apprentice
- Thread starter Ceska
- Start date
Nonlethal Force
First Post
I personally don't use the feat, because I don't like the spirit of the feat when mixed with a Prestige Class. If a player wanted to take it for a flavor reason and not as an entry into a PrC, I'd allow it. I do not consider it broken.
However, a fair reading of the grammar of the Mystic Theurge entry requirements is really enough to satisfy me on this issue:
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 2nd level divine spells and 2nd level arcane spells.
A character with Precoscious apprentice does not have that ability, IIRC. They have the ability to cast a 2nd level spell. Grammatically, that is quite different than being able to cast 2nd level spells.
I think of it this way. The prerequisite says you should be able to cast 2nd level spells in general. As a prepared caster, that is a significant subset. As a spontaneous caster, that is a clearly defined subset. But in both cases it is a set of more than one possibility. They could feasibly cast any 2nd level spell that they would like to choose upon gaining the ability. However, the feat only allows one (and only one) spell. They can't cast 2nd level spells at all. They can cast a 2nd level spell.
Good enough for me and my table. YMMV, of course.
However, a fair reading of the grammar of the Mystic Theurge entry requirements is really enough to satisfy me on this issue:
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 2nd level divine spells and 2nd level arcane spells.
A character with Precoscious apprentice does not have that ability, IIRC. They have the ability to cast a 2nd level spell. Grammatically, that is quite different than being able to cast 2nd level spells.
I think of it this way. The prerequisite says you should be able to cast 2nd level spells in general. As a prepared caster, that is a significant subset. As a spontaneous caster, that is a clearly defined subset. But in both cases it is a set of more than one possibility. They could feasibly cast any 2nd level spell that they would like to choose upon gaining the ability. However, the feat only allows one (and only one) spell. They can't cast 2nd level spells at all. They can cast a 2nd level spell.
Good enough for me and my table. YMMV, of course.
Machiavelli
First Post
It's a feat to gain a 2nd-level arcane spell slot. At levels 1st and 2nd (and 3rd if a sorcerer) it has the additional benefit of providing access to a spell one level higher than what the spellcaster could normally cast.
It seems like a good feat to me, at least for any multiclasser who doesn't want to dump many levels into an arcane class, but is eying up a nice second-level spell. *shrug*
As for entering Mystic Theurge early: why not? It's not like a MT is a broken class, anyway. The only way I see to make a Precocious Apprentice into a broken Mystic Theurge is to add a second dual-progression prestige class. If a DM allows the Precocious Apprentice feat for early MT entry, he/she should just be aware not to allow a second dual-caster prestige class. Simple enough.
It seems like a good feat to me, at least for any multiclasser who doesn't want to dump many levels into an arcane class, but is eying up a nice second-level spell. *shrug*
As for entering Mystic Theurge early: why not? It's not like a MT is a broken class, anyway. The only way I see to make a Precocious Apprentice into a broken Mystic Theurge is to add a second dual-progression prestige class. If a DM allows the Precocious Apprentice feat for early MT entry, he/she should just be aware not to allow a second dual-caster prestige class. Simple enough.
Machiavelli said:
It also boosts the wronmg side of MT progression. The only way I can see to make MT worthwhile would be for a Sorcerer 9/Cleric 1/MT 10 (or something similar). That way you'd lose one level of arcane casting (ouch) but get some boosts to saves, hit points, a useful charisma skill that cna be maxxed (even at double cost) and 11 levels of cleric spells to add flexibility to Sorcerer.
Cleric 3/Sorcerer 1/MT 10 would be a suboptimal approach as the MT levels gut many cleric advantages.
Do does that mean you said, "I don't like that answer from CustServ, but I'm not going to ignore it simply for that reason"? Because you sure seemed pretty damned dismissive.Slaved said:
Not that I can really fault you for being dismissive of CustServ answers, but even a blind squirrel sometimes finds an acorn.
robberbaron
First Post
Sounds more like "I've managed to persuade my GM to let me to do it and now CustServ are telling him I can't".
Machiavelli
First Post
The "broken" Precocious Theurge builds I'm referring to are ones like Human Wiz 1/ Druid 3/ MT 6/ Arcane Heirophant 10, which provides 9th-level wizard and druid spells, a powerful companion familiar, wild shape to 13th level (that's large and tiny I think?), and medium armored casting with no penalties. Oh, and don't forget Arcane Striking with 7th-level or so Wizard spells on full pouncing attacks in Large Wild Shape, flanking with your companion familiar, after the 8th- and 9th-level spells run out!
Yeah, a bit over-the-top. Of course, none of this is nearly as feasible without combining the multiple dual-progression prestige classes.
Yeah, a bit over-the-top. Of course, none of this is nearly as feasible without combining the multiple dual-progression prestige classes.
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