Pregnancy and newborns...

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Aebir-Toril

Is lukewarm on the Forgotten Realms
My reading: they are just wanking off and virtue signalling. There has been no mysogyny. Dont feed the tantrum trolls. But hey. I could be wrong. And cats could could give informed consent to being vegan. Obligate carnivores are a myth.
I saw some misogyny, but none that I'd call egregious or rampant. In fact, the discussion seems to have been rather civil so far. Is it misogyny to admit that um... women can get pregnant and have babies, and men cannot?

I'm not sure if I understand where the "rampant misogyny" is.

Now, would I assign mechanical penalties to pregnant PCs? Maybe, maybe not, it's a difficult topic. I don't see why it's misogyny to consider that though.
 
I saw some misogyny, but none that I'd call egregious or rampant. In fact, the discussion seems to have been rather civil so far. Is it misogyny to admit that um... women can get pregnant and have babies, and men cannot?
Facts are not hateful or sexist. So no.
I'm not sure if I understand where the "rampant misogyny" is.
Normally i hold my tongue rather than say the following but i wont this time. Its nowhere. It doesnt exist. What exists is dishonesty or delusion. One or both of the two is the explanation. People like to make crap up. There is no "rampant hatred of women".
Now, would I assign mechanical penalties to pregnant PCs? Maybe, maybe not, it's a difficult topic. I don't see why it's misogyny to consider that though.
Precisely. When in the interest of the game and or realism its not motivated by hatred and therefore not misogyny. It would be if you were doing it because you hate or wanted to be a dick to women or someome who wants to play a woman.
 

Aebir-Toril

Is lukewarm on the Forgotten Realms
Precisely. When in the interest of the game and or realism its not motivated by hatred and therefore not misogyny. It would be if you were doing it because you hate or wanted to be a dick to women or someome who wants to play a woman.
Exactly. And, if someone didn't want to play a 'realistic' version of the character, and therefore didn't want penalties, I wouldn't penalize them. The game is meant to be fun, and, for some people, fun can be found in the pursuit of realism, which, at my table at least, is only imposed when its inoffensive to the fun of the player, except in ridiculous circumstances. For example, I wouldn't mind waiving penalties for pregnancy, but I would mind waiving penalties for disease, or waiving the inability of players to do what is actually impossible.
 
Exactly. And, if someone didn't want to play a 'realistic' version of the character, and therefore didn't want penalties, I wouldn't penalize them. The game is meant to be fun, and, for some people, fun can be found in the pursuit of realism, which, at my table at least, is only imposed when its inoffensive to the fun of the player, except in ridiculous circumstances.
I can definitely get behind that.

My group just pushes down a little harder on the realism side of the scales than that and as a result would simply not ask that person to play (if they wouod be bothered). We'd still be friends with them but we'd view it as a sign that probably would generalize to other scenarios of realism. My group is basically the "bullet proof to offense" type and as a result such an individual would actually weigh our group down.

Not every play style is for everyone. BUT that doesnt automatically make some playstyles misogynous.

And there needs to be dms who remove distressing content. Because for some people instead of adding fun distressing content takes it away.

But people need to start realising that their preferences dont have some weird sort of pseudo-religious purity/sanctity and just let people play the game the way they want to without whinging at them.
For example, I wouldn't mind waiving penalties for pregnancy, but I would mind waiving penalties for disease, or waiving the inability of players to do what is actually impossible.
This is one reason i LOVE the modularity inherent to d&d (3 and 3.5 having the lion's share of that particular quality). You CAN split hairs! And it generally causes no problems! Isnt that wonderful?

Over the years our games have been quite enriched and also quite enabled by the fact we could split hairs for multiple purposes including but not limited to, making things work smoothly instead of clashing, allowing a much better range of flavor and possibility, and just generally making things have an organic and logical sense to them. Also convenience at times. Or to ignore something boring.

Modularity is a wonderful thing. Handwaiving some things away is a huge skill for players and dms alike. Especially dms. Sometimes its just the thing to do.

Not an example of handwaiving but definitely an example of modularity at work:

There is absolutely no ruling on creating a new type of undead curse? The party necro wants to figure out how to make a few and is willing to put a lot of time into it and it will help the party? He wants to study epic effects because he knows it ought to be a lot more difficult than just creating an undead and he may be harmed in the discovery but is willing to take the risk?
Make-It-So1.png

Resident rules lawyer several levels later when the other party member's dream is about to come to fruition grumbles about there being no rules precedent?
download.jpeg
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
the shaming language is creepy/culty.

Why dont you explain (with direct quotes) what was misogynous?
I did, earlier in the thread. You ideas about pregnancy are ignorant and you've shown an absolute refusal to consider they're incorrect when given direct evidence to the contrary.
 
Ovinomancer is being accused of virtue signaling and political correctness.

Someone pour me a drink.
I didnt say the words "political correctness", nor did i specify a name, but sure, I will get you that drink.
🍷
I have a feeling, even though im going to sleep soon, you might need it. ;)
 
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Aebir-Toril

Is lukewarm on the Forgotten Realms
I'm saddened that you've decided to agree with the primary source of misogyny in this thread @Aebir-Toril that there was no misogyny and have, instead, chosen to gleefully erect strawmen for him to aid you in knocking down.
Strawmen? Of what sort? I said, it's not misogyny to "admit that um... women can get pregnant and have babies, and men cannot". Is that a strawman? I'm genuinely interested in having a discussion on this.

Unlike @Son of the Serpent, I would likely not assign penalties for pregnancy, because I feel, personally, like that would ruin the fun of play. However, if Son of the Serpent's players enjoy that level of verisimilitude, then I don't see why it's misogyny unless SotS is forcing unwilling players into pregnancies that carry significant disadvantages, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

Otherwise, I don't really see why saying that pregnancy can have some effect on the human body in terms of athleticism, especially late in term, is misogyny. It's not a misconception, it's a fact. It's a fact that too much physical activity can result in early or forced labor, and it's a fact that having children is difficult, which is why I respect women so much for choosing to go through it, if they so desire.
 
Unlike @Son of the Serpent, I would likely not assign penalties for pregnancy, because I feel, personally, like that would ruin the fun of play. However, if Son of the Serpent's players enjoy that level of verisimilitude, then I don't see why it's misogyny unless SotS is forcing unwilling players into pregnancies that carry significant disadvantages, and that doesn't seem to be the case.
Just gonna confirm this. Yes. None of this is ever forced. I (and any other dm in my group) would never force this kind of thing. That would be pretty despicable. And that actually would qualify as pretty creepy to boot.
 
Only in your imagination.
My reading: they are just wanking off and virtue signalling. There has been no mysogyny. Dont feed the tantrum trolls. But hey. I could be wrong. And cats could could give informed consent to being vegan. Obligate carnivores are a myth.
"They" in this quote does not refer to an individual (it refers to a nebulous mob in this case) which means your name wasnt mentioned nor were you even referenced.
"Political correctness" is also never mentioned.
Its in your head. There are no faces on toast. Cant help you. Faces. On toast. Not a thing i can do. You need to get your head on straight and stop expecting everyone to see elvis anywhere bread has been toasted.
Oh dear. That group over there likes to actually realistically show that pregnancy has massive and diverse negative effects on various d&d worldy things. I must feel offended from it even though most people dont see misogyny there and think realism in SOMEONE ELSE'S game is permissible and not a symptom of hate but mere preference.
Stop. Controlling. How. Others. Play.
Grow. Up.
No. One. Said. Everyone. Must. Play. X. Way. So. No. One. Has. Too. Do. Anything. They. Arent. Comfortable. With.
Except. You. Genius.

Do you think you can handle not telling people their fun is wrong?
 
Pregnancy being dangerous and debilitating is not incompatible with female empowerment. Look at the spotted hyena.
Gigantic female hyenas with huge pseudo phaluses larger than the males phaluses which rape the males daily and keep the males at the bottom of the pack hierarchy? I have no idea if they will be pleased or irritated (im actually not trying to troll or be annoying with that one. I really am not sure.) Lotta cognitive dissonance already going on with that person.
 
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