Presentation and Rules Are Different Things

[James Gasik]

Fantasy Craft's rules constantly refer to other sections of the book, forcing you to keep going forwards and backwards to determine how things work. We used to joke about needing to make a hyperlinked pdf to properly play the game.

 

[Kromanjon]

I believe that is true (I've heard the same.) That being said, I didn't find SotWW to be overly wordy. It has a lot of embedded lore, true, and the way the spell system works means that there's a pretty high density of information there.

But the actual section of play rules is pretty small (maybe 20 pages?), and most of the class features are quite terse in their wording.

I just felt that a lot of things were described to the point of absurdity. Might just have been a feeling and I don´t have the book in front of me but sometimes it felt like it read something like this:

"To succeed at a roll you have to reach the DC or above with the roll of a d20 plus any relevant modifications. If you do this to the character accomplishes the thing he wanted to achieve but if the adjusted roll did not reach the DC or above and the result instead was below the DC the character fails meaning he did not achieve his goals."

The example above is hyperbole to get my point across and I still very much like the game.

Sad to hear that his editor died. Didn´t know that.

 

[dbm]

Kim Mohan, a long time member of the industry who started with TSR in 1979. One of the main contributors to the original Unearthed Arcana.

 

[dbm]

To the OP- there are definitely games where this is the case for me and my group. I am a fan of JRPGs personally, but most of my group are not. There are some cool, JRPG inspired games with great mechanics but people bounce of the presentation when they try to read them.

 

[Black Dougal]

Anything by Palladium. In all fairness though, maybe they've improved since the 90s. Sadly once you do get past the presentation you also learn their mechanics are terrible.

 

[loverdrive]

I thought the Mork Borg consensus was "the presentation is great, the rules are a nothinburger"

I don't really have many games where I'm put off by presentation enough to drop it, but I wish TTRPGs took a hint from boardgames on how to present rules in a short and understandable format.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

I wish all rpg tomes came it two formats: one with art, lore, fluff and walls of text, and one in a strict tech manual format like Old School essentials.

With that said, my current love-hate books are C7:s WFRP 4e. I love the art, lore and fluff, but the actual rules - which are unnecessary crunchy and quirky by themselves - are a disorganized mess spread over 10+ massive books.

As for Mörk Borg, I see that as a lovely postmodern art project, with one page of "rules" spread haphazardly in the work of art.

 

[jdrakeh]

Fuzion was the unfortunate result of Mike Pondsmith getting access to a powerful DTP package for the first time. Saying it's "overdesigned" understates the problem massively: if he'd had flashing ink available, he'd have used it.

Oh, Jesus, YES. For me, the Bubblegum Crisis core book was the worst offender. I'm sure it is probably a great game, but I'll never know because I can't get past the absolutely atrocious layout and graphic design. It is terrible.

 

[TiQuinn]

Is there a game that you really like to play but really do not like the way it is written or presented? Or vice versa: a game that is wonderful presentation that you just really do not like the rules for?

I mean, honestly, D&D is one of the worst for presentation. I find it textually dense and dry as a bone and it’s only gotten worse as the writing has turned more towards lawyer-speak (Now With Every Term Capitalized), and I can only read it a section at a time like it’s a textbook.

 

[Umbran]

... I can only read it a section at a time like it’s a textbook.

Well, it kind of is a textbook.
It is primarily a reference document, with a second purpose as a teaching text. It isn't poetry, or entertainment fiction.