Or maybe I, and the vast majority of people I actually played with, just have a different opinion. The fact that I disagree has no impact on the validity or value of your opinion.
To each their own, I'm not going to argue about this.
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D&D 4E Presentation vs design... vs philosophy
- Thread starter CapnZapp
- Start date
To each their own, I'm not going to argue about this.
You have a different opinion about whether or not such moves have been done by non-magical characters in action literature/movies???
No, I don't care to discuss this any more. Feel free to hold a different opinion than mine.
Ok, well...I'm not stating an opinion.
That non-magical characters in books/comics/movies/tv etc. have been shown to do similar moves as the powers described is not an opinion, for gosh's sakes. It's a fact.
FrogReaver
The most respectful and polite poster ever
AC covers it - or can. No need for a power to double down on that.
The maneuver is more evocative, descriptive, and fun.
For a game, those are important qualities.
This is a never ending rabbit hole that goes nowhere. I don't care if you don't think "come and get it" and "rain of steel" are not supernatural abilities. That there's a reason I could only use (IIRC) stunning strike once per day. It seems pretty obvious to me that they are supernatural but you'll just say blah, blah, blah because they aren't. Then I'll say blah, blah, blah they are. Rinse and repeat.
It's old. The horse is dead. Time to move on.
FrogReaver
The most respectful and polite poster ever
Or samey if overused
You are dodging the examples from lit/movies etc.
Batman throwing his batarangs to take out multiple opponents. Batman doesn't have magical powers, but he can do really cool things.
4e lets my rogue try this maneuver without being a wizard.
I mean, unless you think Batman has magical powers...
FrozenNorth
Hero
To get back to the original point of the thread (for which I apologize), the discussion of “sameyness” in 4e does point to a substantial difference in design goals between 4e and PF2.
4e made a point of unifying all classes in the AEDU system, so all classes, for instance, receive an encounter power at 3rd level.
PF2, on the other hand, goes out of its way to make it difficult to compare class advancement, by having savings throws, perception, training with weapons, training with armor and even skills advance at different rates for different classes.
For those who don’t play PF2, an illustration is in order. Like 3e, PF2 has 3 saves: Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. Like skills, the saving throws progress from untrained to trained to expert, to master, to legendary. Most classes begin with two saves at trained and one at expert. Some have a different layout (like two expert and 1 trained). Each save advances separately, at not always at the same level (so one of the classes may go from trained to expert at level 5, while others do the same at level 7).
The overall effect is to make it very difficult to compare class progression, as even if two characters end up in the same place, one may have spent two levels during which their Will saves, for instance, were at a relative -2 to the other character.
4e made a point of unifying all classes in the AEDU system, so all classes, for instance, receive an encounter power at 3rd level.
PF2, on the other hand, goes out of its way to make it difficult to compare class advancement, by having savings throws, perception, training with weapons, training with armor and even skills advance at different rates for different classes.
For those who don’t play PF2, an illustration is in order. Like 3e, PF2 has 3 saves: Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. Like skills, the saving throws progress from untrained to trained to expert, to master, to legendary. Most classes begin with two saves at trained and one at expert. Some have a different layout (like two expert and 1 trained). Each save advances separately, at not always at the same level (so one of the classes may go from trained to expert at level 5, while others do the same at level 7).
The overall effect is to make it very difficult to compare class progression, as even if two characters end up in the same place, one may have spent two levels during which their Will saves, for instance, were at a relative -2 to the other character.
