Preserving the Fear Inherent in 1st Level

[77IM]

I just came up with another idea, after reading this post on another thread.

"Hardcore Mode" makes it harder to succeed at death saves -- you need to roll a 15 or better. So you're more likely to die, but it will probably still take 3+ rounds for it to happen.

In Super Extra Hardcore Mode, you could die in as little as one round:

• The death save DC is 15 -- you need a 15 or better to succeed.
• If you fail by 5 or more (that is, you get a 10 or lower) it counts as two failures.
• If you fail by 10 or more (that is, you get a 5 or lower), you die instantly.
• If you suffer a critical hit while dying, you die instantly. (Coup de grace is back, baby!)

The goal of this change, is to make it so that when someone drops to 0 hit points, they don't die right away (because instant death is usually un-fun) BUT the other PCs need to really scramble to rescue/stabilize that character (because scrambling to rescue/stabilize an ally is fun).



Here it is in table form:

Death Save
Roll : Outcome
20 : You heal 1 hit point, regain consciousness, and are no longer dying.
15-19 : 1 success.
10-14 : 1 failure.
5-9 : 2 failures.
1-4 : You die.

 

[Raunalyn]

I don't know...you can effectively scare them with the right monster(s) and good tactics.

Primary example:

Last night, I was running my group (all 8th level) through Storm King's Thunder. They are currently dealing with the Fire Giants, and they had already entered the Fire Giants' lair once, killing a few of them, then withdrawing. Fire giants, being tactically proficient, went on a higher alert. So, when the group infiltrated a second time, the giants were more ready.

7 fire giants descended on the party, along with 8 hell hounds. The group was able to kill 2 of the giants, but saw they were getting surrounded. I heard several times throughout the encounter "I don't think we're going to make it" before they finally decided to withdraw (by the way, the Sleet spell plus Slow is a great delaying tactic, and visually funny). They managed to escape...just barely...and are now trying to figure out how they can get back in to the Fire Giants' lair without causing another hefty fight.

After the session, the entire group mentioned that the encounter was very tense, very scary, and that they were extremely worried that they were about to have a TPK. I don't do that often, but I tried to play to the Fire giants as a militaristic group who were aware and prepared for an incursion. It worked.

 

[Reynard]

I don't know...you can effectively scare them with the right monster(s) and good tactics.

Primary example:

Last night, I was running my group (all 8th level) through Storm King's Thunder. They are currently dealing with the Fire Giants, and they had already entered the Fire Giants' lair once, killing a few of them, then withdrawing. Fire giants, being tactically proficient, went on a higher alert. So, when the group infiltrated a second time, the giants were more ready.

7 fire giants descended on the party, along with 8 hell hounds.

Sure but that encounter is an extreme example. It's XP value is a real 40K and an adjusted 162K, compared to a "deadly" budget of 10.5K for 5 8th level PCs. I know the encounter calculations are a little borked but even so.

I guess what I am saying is I don't necessarily see the use of overwhelming encounters as a solution to the problem, at least not on the regular. They have a place, for sure, but rarely I think.

 

[Raunalyn]

Sure but that encounter is an extreme example. It's XP value is a real 40K and an adjusted 162K, compared to a "deadly" budget of 10.5K for 5 8th level PCs. I know the encounter calculations are a little borked but even so.

I guess what I am saying is I don't necessarily see the use of overwhelming encounters as a solution to the problem, at least not on the regular. They have a place, for sure, but rarely I think.

My point is that it's OK for the DM to use a monster or group of monsters intelligently. Play to their strengths. Fighting a lair full of goblins? Lots of traps, little ambushes, etc. If the party withdraws for some reason (like to rest), reposition enemies...have them fortify areas that they believe would be likely areas of incursion. It's OK to overwhelm PC's occasionally...as long as it's not done too often. This was the point of the original post...how do you put the fear back in to them?

 

[Reynard]

. This was the point of the original post...how do you put the fear back in to them?

Well, the point of the original question was how to keep the same kind of tension and fear in a mid or high level fight as you have in a 1st level fight.

Based on general responses, I don't think it is possible. Nor do I any longer necessarily think it is desirable.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Reynard]

I don't know about that.

Fear is a powerful motivator.

And some people (and by definition, some tables) prefer a different level of challenge.

There is no "one size fits all." If your table enjoys the "heoric narrative, illusion of danger (but not really)" then that's totally cool. If your table enjoys the "you have to play very carefully to avoid death, and even then, you might not" that's cool too.

Some people like hikes in the woods, some like roller coasters, some like jumping out of planes, and some like free solo climbing; there is no "right preference."

I meant specifically the same tension and fear as is present at low level. Fear is still important. The problem is I am pretty terrible at tactical combat so once the PCs are capable the players outplay me pretty easily.

 

[Raunalyn]

I don't know about that.

Fear is a powerful motivator.

And some people (and by definition, some tables) prefer a different level of challenge.

There is no "one size fits all." If your table enjoys the "heoric narrative, illusion of danger (but not really)" then that's totally cool. If your table enjoys the "you have to play very carefully to avoid death, and even then, you might not" that's cool too.

Some people like hikes in the woods, some like roller coasters, some like jumping out of planes, and some like free solo climbing; there is no "right preference."

Or, do like me, and change things up to keep the players off balance. I don't often like to really challenge my players, but when I do, they tend to enjoy it as much as regular heroic game play. It's the moments of high tension that adds spice to the game, IMHO.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*