Presidential Election Politics and What Turned Me Off From 4e

[I'm A Banana]

Definitely no need to change unless you want to, Joe! That's similar to the conclusion I came to. I've got a huge amount of 3e books and any problems I have, there are quick and easy fixes for (some of them even imported from 4e!). I don't need 4e. My problems are a little different, and more subtle and systemic, but it boils down to the same conclusion: the car still runs, so why would I splurge on a new one?

I actually raised this point in a thread near the advent of 4e: the idea that 3e is "good enough" for a lot of people, so the improvements of 4e might not get people on board.

Game on, bro, game on.

 

[skinnydwarf]

Before last night, I had sort of made a decision about 4e: I didn't like it. I hadn't read the books much (they came out when I was studying for the bar, and I had hardly picked them up), but from what I read online it seemed like it wouldn't be for me. I'd stick to 3e and my (gods) 100+ 3e books . . .

I played my first 4E game last night. It was a quick adventure in the Living Forgotten Realms; we went and retrieved some relics for a merchant, killing snakes and undead. I wasn't too keen on social encounters consisting of "You need X successes in these skills to pass this social encounter, say something and roll" aspect of the game, but that was partly because we were rushed and I suspect partly because that was how the module was designed. The DM had complained to me about just that aspect of the game the week before, so I don't think it was just his style. The combat, however, was super fun.

A line I see a lot around here when 4e is discussed (at least the few 4e threads I glance through) goes something like "Apparently if you're not doing something cool every round, you aren't having fun." I don't agree with that; you can have fun without doing something cool every round. However, if last night's game is any indication, doing something cool every round is *more* fun.

I played a ruthless Tiefling warlock, and had a blast. I had lots of neat powers, and used all but one of them throughout the night. One of my daily powers was called something like "Your Glorious Sacrifice" and if you injured an adjacent ally, it added damage to your attack. Sapping half the life out of the halfling wizard (the fighter had moved away) for my attack was fun... even though I completely missed. It was a gamble; the wizard and I had gotten flanked by flying vampires, and needed to take them down fast. Fortunately, even though I missed, thanks to some good tactics and lots of evasion we managed to survive. It was a really exciting fight.

I look forward to playing more 4e.

That said, I'm not going to stop playing and running 3e, and not just because I have a ton of 3e books I need to justify wasting money on. (Most of them are full of fluff, anyway, and could be reused in 4e). I still love the detail of 3e. I don't have a problem with prep time, I use monsters and have tons of adventures and other books to draw pre-made characters from. The Rules Compendium makes looking over random rules I don't remember before or during a session really easy.

Long live D&D, whatever incarnation you like. Even if it's all of them.

 

[catsclaw227]

I say, if Joe doesn't want to try 4e, and 3e is working for him, then go for it! Have fun doing what you like.

But, as you said, it was an emotional decision, not one based upon logical analysis brought about by personal experience.

Some of your points could be of "personal preference" level analysis. "Magic Missiles should always hit". Me, personally, not that important.

But there have been many RPGs or even D&D adventures that read poorly and played awesome (Mongoose's Drow War series for 3.x) and some read totally cool and played awfully (early Dangerous Journeys by EGG). I think that reading something and claiming that it doesn't play well -- without actually playing it -- is a bit disingenuous. Not claiming that is what you said, but it is an card that gets played a lot around here.

Also, with regards to fighters healing being stupid. Well, then I am guessing that you consider hit points much less abstract mechanic than is intended in 4e. (And actually in any edition of D&D) I saw the Rocky movies. He used second wind, for sure. They aren't actually "healing" themselves, they are pulling themselves up by their boot-straps and taking another shot at it. (And outside that, they can't really "heal" themselves in battle).

Anyway, I still say, more power to ya. Play what your group has fun with. That's what I am doing.

 

[Grimstaff]

Ah, yet another thread bemoaning the loss of Vancian magic in 4E, which is entirely untrue.

If you must be turned off of 4E, do it because every class has Vancian "magic" now...

 

[Fifth Element]

2. how can you possibly make magic missiles not automatically hit?

I tend to think of it this way: if you can make magic missile hit all the time, why couldn't you make all of your ranged attacks hit all of the time?

 

[Nifft]

Absolutely. If 3E is taking you where you want to go, no reason at all to switch.

Yep. "You don't change horse in the middle of a stream!"

Oh wait, was that political?

, -- N

 

[Umbran]

First Joe the Plumber, now Joe the Lawyer.

Threadwin

Yes, and your prize for winning is apt to be a week where you cannot post, if you continue along these lines.

Sorry if this seems draconian, but the current real-world political situation is far too likely to start an argument. DO NOT BRING IT IN HERE.

Next person who crosses the line can expect to be given a vacation from the boards without warning or discussion. Just don't do it.

 

[Jack99]

The post itself is rather mild and seemingly well thought . . . if only after all that was written some proper capitalization was used.

He never does. Maybe his secretary does it normally.