Level Up (A5E) Press the Attack/Fall Back update

[MarkB]

You can't move if you can't move, no!

But if you can't move, does the whole reaction fail, or do you stay in place but still deny the attacker their expertise die.

 

[Stalker0]

But if you can't move, does the whole reaction fail, or do you stay in place but still deny the attacker their expertise die.

Put another way, the ability provides two effects:

1) A movement of 5 ft
2) The negation of the expertise die to attack

Currently the movement of 5 ft is not really written as a prerequsite of the ability, just "an effect". And often with other abilities, just because one effect cannot be applied to the target (such as an immunity) does not mean the other effect is negated.

Common examples would be a condition and damage. Things that are immune to the condition are not also immune to the damage necessarily.


Now I think its clear the designers intent here is movement is the mechanism by which the ability activates, and therefore no movement = no negation....but MarkB's point is valid that its not truly written that way.

 

[Stalker0]

Here is a slight tweak to the ability that could remove that issue.


Fall Back
Whenever a creature takes the Press the Attack action against you, you can use your reaction to yield ground. You must move backwards 5 feet, and your attacker does not gain an expertise die against you from using Press the Attack. As part of its action, your attacker can move 5 feet towards you.

Neither you nor the attacker provoke opportunity attacks from this movement.

A creature using the Rage class feature cannot choose to Fall Back.

 

[Morrus]

But if you can't move, does the whole reaction fail, or do you stay in place but still deny the attacker their expertise die.

"you can use your reaction to yield ground. You move backwards 5 feet, and your attacker does not gain an expertise die against you"

Yielding ground is one activity; the two results are linked. If you can't yield ground, neither takes place.

 

[Stalker0]

It actually leads to another interesting thing.... can a creature move without speed?

Manuevers suggest that....yes, you can. For example, the charge manuever allows me to gain extra movement beyond my speed (and has no technical interaction with speed itself, I just move a straight 30 feet regardless of what my speed is normally).

Therefore.....by the book, I could use the charge maneuver to escape a grapple.
Further, a friend of mine could use press the attack against me, granting me 5 foot of movement (even if my speed is 0 or has been fully used in the round) and escape a grapple that way.


Now I think these are very RAW interpretations, not RAI at all.....but technically, it should work.

 

[Satirical Bard]

a friend of mine could use press the attack against me

But then they'd have to Attack you...

 

[Stalker0]

"you can use your reaction to yield ground. You move backwards 5 feet, and your attacker does not gain an expertise die against you"

Yielding ground is one activity; the two results are linked. If you can't yield ground, neither takes place.

Quoting one of the spells:

If you hit, the target of your
attack takes 7d6 thunder damage, and must make a
Constitution saving throw or be knocked prone and
stunned until the end of its next turn.

So if I use the same sentence structure interpretation, that means that creatures immune to thunder damage are also immune to the prone and stun effects. Is that the intent?

 

[Stalker0]

But then they'd have to Attack you...

Sure, with an unarmed strike doing 1+ str Or probably can use the autofail rule to just roll a 1 and miss. Again, I'm not saying its optimal, but players get creative and crazy, there are definitely players I have that would try these kinds of shenanigan's Now I'm a veteran DM that has no issue pushing back when players get "rules lawyery" on me, but newer DMs might have more trouble.

 

[MarkB]

"you can use your reaction to yield ground. You move backwards 5 feet, and your attacker does not gain an expertise die against you"

Yielding ground is one activity; the two results are linked. If you can't yield ground, neither takes place.

Thanks. I know I'm being super-picky, but there are quite a few moving parts to these mechanics, so it's good to get them in order.

It actually leads to another interesting thing.... can a creature move without speed?

Manuevers suggest that....yes, you can. For example, the charge manuever allows me to gain extra movement beyond my speed (and has no technical interaction with speed itself, I just move a straight 30 feet regardless of what my speed is normally).

Therefore.....by the book, I could use the charge maneuver to escape a grapple.
Further, a friend of mine could use press the attack against me, granting me 5 foot of movement (even if my speed is 0 or has been fully used in the round) and escape a grapple that way.


Now I think these are very RAW interpretations, not RAI at all.....but technically, it should work.

On a similar note, if the attacker moves their full speed before using Press the Attack and their target Falls Back, can they still move to follow? Technically the movement is being granted to them by the defender's reaction.

But then they'd have to Attack you...

They'd have to use the Attack action. Nothing about Press the Attack actually mandates whether you use your attacks against the same target or not.

 

[Stalker0]

They'd have to use the Attack action. Nothing about Press the Attack actually mandates whether you use your attacks against the same target or not.

Agreed, though I also think that would be a perfectly reasonable restriction. The flavor of the ability to me is pushing on one opponent, delivering strike after strike. A good example would be Luke fighting Vadar in Return of the Jedi, when he moves in and just strike his saber hard over and over and over again.