Preview: The Sorcerer

[Scribble]

d'oh. trying to type at work.

Either way, my point is that the primary difference right now is the spells and fluff, not anything that makes them really different. At this point, couldn't you just have classless spellcasters?

You kind of do you kind of don't.

4e is kind of a mix of classless and class based systems.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You kind of do you kind of don't.

4e is kind of a mix of classless and class based systems.

I think 4E is decidedly a class based system. It basically has two "tiers" of classes:
- Role. This describes what you do on the battlefield.
- Class. This describes the specifics of what you do on the battlefield, but also the stuff outside of combat. What skills do you possess? There is a difference between having Athletics, Acrobatics and Thievery and having Arcana, History and Religion as class skills, even without ever looking at what role or powers you have.
The Power Source is also very important, since it creates a theme for your powers that is consistent with the source. Arcane spells look different from divine prayers or martial exploits.

The Class gives you features and powers, both representing how you do stuff.
Some of the differences in classes become notable when you look at the class features alone. Compare a Shielding Swordmage to a Fighter. The shielding swordmage reduces damage inflicted if an enemy doesn't attack him, the Fighter deals extra damage if an enemy doesn't attack him.
Other things are more reliant on powers. A Wizard has a lot of ranged powers, similar to a Warlock. But the Warlock attacks mostly single enemies, often with some extra effect that lets him move, escape his enemy or avoid his attacks, while the Wizard deals damage to areas.


Classes in some games (including D&D 3E) are often based on using very different magical subsystems. Well, it wasn't that many in 3E.
We basically had weapon users and spell users, with the spell users further differentiated as "spontaneous" or "prepared". There were also some subtle and not-so-subtle differences. But looking merely at spell slots, Cleric and Wizard weren't all that different. But their power spell lists were very different in certain matters.
Basically, one of the biggest differences in classes was that they used variant "power" systems or resource management models.
The next difference where class specific features.

That part is not existent in 4E. Everyone uses the same resource management/power system. But they still have different class features, and different "spells". Some class features are even "hidden" in the system, like the Barbarians Rage powers. (Well, it's not really hidden if the barbarian description explicitly describes this... )

 

[Rechan]

Classes in some games (including D&D 3E) are often based on using very different magical subsystems. Well, it wasn't that many in 3E.

Psionics, Incarnum, Truename/Binders/Shadowcasters, Bo9S, Warlocks...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Psionics, Incarnum, Truename/Binders/Shadowcasters, Bo9S, Warlocks...

Well, I should have specified "Core". Most of the classes that came out for 3E still followed these two primary routes. Well, at least I think most, I might count some Oriental Adventures classes which is technically 3.0 not 3.5, which might make a difference. Of course, my view is also tainted by the fact that I never saw any of the other classes in play. (And some not even in print).

EDIT: http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...resource-power-systems-did-you-use-often.html for a poll on which systems you used!

 

[OchreJelly]

I like what I see so far. I think there's room for more elemental blasters. Perhaps elemental power source PCs will inherit the actual "summon elemental" type spells.

In regards to his survivability, I suspect we'll see more powers that have "anti-mark" style riders. Similar to the "Dragonflame Mantle" power. By that I mean powers that effectively say "attack me and something bad will happen to you."

 

[Scribble]

I think 4E is decidedly a class based system.

I still say it's a mix of both.

Ina full on class based system, you pick a class. It has powers, and abilities based on what class it is.

The thief gets to move silently, pick pockets, and climb walls, but he doesn't get spells. The wizard gets to cast spells, but doesn't get climb wals or move silently. If you want to cast spells, be a wizard. If you want to move silently be a thief.

In a classless system, the player selects powers pretty much at will. He might move silently and cast spells. etc.

Which is why I say 4e is a mix of both.

Like a classless system, you get to decide which powers and abilities your character has and doesn't have, but like a traditional class system the powers and abilities it can select from are limited by your class.

 

[Runestar]

I don't really see the significance of having varying power sources. Save for a few abilities which interact with certain power sources, the distinction seems for most part cosmetic, since it appears to have absolutely no impact on how your powers work. I mean, I see people exclaiming "An arcane leader! A primal controller! Whee..." But so what if your leader is arcane, martial or divine? I can have the same power, and regardless of what power source I give it (be it shadow, or some weird name I cooked up with a random word generator), it still operates in the same manner.

So now sorcerers inherit the elemental power source. My reaction is "Um...yeah, so?".

 

[webrunner]

Psionics, Incarnum, Truename/Binders/Shadowcasters, Bo9S, Warlocks...

It's worth noting that the power system in 4e seems to be based a little on virtually all of these.

 

[chaotix42]

So now sorcerers inherit the elemental power source. My reaction is "Um...yeah, so?".

??? Sorcerer's are arcane...

But yeah, it's mostly flavor.

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

I don't really see the significance of having varying power sources.

There are a few things here and there that depend on the source of a power/whatever. The sorcerer's Draconic Power and Chaos Power class features, for example, boost any Arcane power, not just the sorcerer's own unique powers. And a wand's Daily power can be used by anyone that has at least one Arcane power.

These things aren't very common, sure, but I'd imagine we'll see more and more of this as more 4e books are published...