Preview: The Warden

[Rechan]

Thunder Ram Assault follows up the main attack with a close blast 3 that also does damage.

But that is a controller effect, not striker. It's a single 1d6, not [W]. It's not heavily damage-focused.

I do confess I missed the Effect part of Wildblood frenzy.

In fact, every encounter power that is not Predatory Guardian (the 2[w]) or Thunder Slam (which is positively sedate next to the other powers) involves multiple attacks and/or followup damage.

Close burst attacks aren't striker-like, however. They attack multiple foes, not do more damage to single foes.

Now, Earthgrasp (Geez, how many abilities can they have named 'Earth?') is more appropriate, but it favors the Earthstrength build, not the Wildblood one.

 

[Oldtimer]

The fighter can stop people from moving altogether. On the other hand, nothing stops you from shifting away from a warder and then using a ranged attack against somebody.

Nothing stops you from shifting away from a fighter either. You might get hurt from it, but it won't stop you (unless it kills you, of course).

 

[Belphanior]

Ah yes, that'll teach me to go by memory.

Ok, so he can block one guy every other round from doing that. Much better from what I initially thought, still not as impressive as a fighter I think. The only interrupt he has is the melee one though. The slide-n-slow is a reaction, so the damage is done by then. At least a paladin and swordmage can actively deter people from doing that.

Creating difficult/dangerous terrain is certainly a plus, but they're only available as an encounter power here and there without sustains.

I think the warder is the first true hybrid that's a cross between defender and controller/striker. He'd certainly be annoying to fight against, and he does prevent monsters from doing what they want, but he has a relatively low "hit me instead!" factor.

Judging from levels 1-3, anyway.

 

[Rechan]

Ah, that is indeed on the light side. The post I replied to said "(all but 1 of the encounter powers do 2[W])", which gave much the opposite impression.

My bad phrasing there. I meant only 1 does 2[w].

 

[Rechan]

Targeting Fort is better than a +1 to hit - granted only some Warden powers are vs Fort, but this seems to be a wash.

I strongly disagree. Someone did a statistical analysis of monster defenses, and Fort is on average higher than AC.

I consider it a weakness when attacks target fort.

 

[Belphanior]

Targeting Fort is better than a +1 to hit - granted only some Warden powers are vs Fort, but this seems to be a wash.

Is it? I seem to recall that Fort is on average about 1 point lower than AC for monsters. So for those few attacks they're equal, for most the fighter is more accurate.

Also, quite a few soldiers and brutes have a Fort that is higher than their AC.

It's not exactly an overwhelming advantage.

Nothing stops you from shifting away from a fighter either. You might get hurt from it, but it won't stop you (unless it kills you, of course).

I didn't mean stop in the sense of "makes impossible" but in the sense of "makes them choose something else". That's the central core idea of the defender role: not to force people to attack you aggro-style, but to present a better target and give them the (biased) choice.

 

[jasin]

I strongly disagree. Someone did a statistical analysis of monster defenses, and Fort is on average higher than AC.

I consider it a weakness when attacks target fort.

I think you misremember. On average, Fort is the highest of the non-AC defenses, so high that non-weapon attacks vs. Fort are more difficult than weapon attacks vs. AC, i.e. Fort is less than 2-3 points lower than AC. But it's still lower, and weapon vs. Fort is in most cases better than weapon vs. AC.

 

[Spatula]

Close burst attacks aren't striker-like, however. They attack multiple foes, not do more damage to single foes.

Point. Hungry Earth is, however, flat out better than a similar striker power at the same level (Dire Wolverine Strike, ranger 1). Hell, it's better than Sweeping Blow (fighter encounter 3). Given that it attacks Fort and has an additional effect, it should be toned down IMO - perhaps removing the Str mod to the damage.

 

[Rechan]

Point. Hungry Earth is, however, flat out better than a similar striker power at the same level (Dire Wolverine Strike, ranger 1).

Compare it to a Controller power of equal level, considering that it's very controller-esque.

Also, I don't consider making difficult terrain all that powerful.

Difficult terrain hampers anyone who wants to move into it, not out. The effects of difficult terrain only work when you enter it, but if you start your turn in it and move out, you're not effected. Any enemy who wants to shift out (or just take a move action to move out) is fine and dandy.

I've seen in play various Wizard powers that make difficult terrain, and they haven't really effected the battlefield at all.

Honestly, I don't see much the point of that power, unless the Warden is trying to prevent people from flanking him or shift past him.

 

[Baumi]

Warden's Grasp:

So correct, a monster could shift away and attack with ranged. Then the Warden uses Warden's Grasp. On the Warden's turn, he moves up to the monster, and hits. On the monster's second turn, it can only shift at the end of its turn, thereby not allowing it to get a ranged attack.

So if anything, the 'shift-ranged attack' can only happen every 2 rounds.

How? The slowing and shift-stopping effect only lasts till the end of it's turn, not until the end of its NEXT turn.

If I understand it correctly then all it does is shift the enemy and hinder him to move in the same round (not a big deal if he has already done his movement before).