Pricing for a spell penetration item?

[The Souljourner]

I would be very wary of giving anyone an enhancement bonus to caster level checks. Spell resistance is there to make things a challenge for spellcasters. I'd much rather see an item that duplicates a feat, so that you can't both have greater spell penetration *and* a +5 enhancement to caster level checks. +9 to a d20 roll that is often around DC 13 makes for an almost automatic success. That's just not a good idea.

-The Souljourner

 

[Thanee]

Don't forget, that +2 Int only gives a +1 bonus, tho.

+2 to spell penetration actually gives a +2 bonus, and considering how important that stuff is at higher levels, this shouldn't come for such a neglectable cost.

Also remember, that defense is pretty much always cheaper than offense in magic items!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I can't quite express my thoughts on this clearly.

But here goes: I feel this ability gets much stronger the more of it you have. Especially if it stacks with other forms of SR penetration. This item and both the spell penetration feats could give a total of CL +9 to beat SR - you basically ignore the SR of anything apt. to your level?

i.e. At (n^2)*1000: a +2 spell penetration item for 4k is an intersting item that I think is going to be extremely popular. IMO, a +5 item for 25k is an absolute no brainer for any 11th+ level 'offensive' spellcaster?

For me. Applying the test of 'is it so good that I'd take it before any other item'... The answer is a yes.

I think a (n^3)*1000 more accurately reflects the benefit. Cap at +5.

1 = 1000
2 = 8000
3 = 27000
4 = 64000
5 = 125000

Even so, I'd say at ~16+ level I'd seriously consider the +4 version of that item for any kind of enemy effecting caster... '-20%' to SR - yes please!

My 2 cents.

Possibly having it replicate and not stack with the penetration feats...

 

[Otterscrubber]

There is an Ioun Stone that gives you +1 to effective caster level, it's cost is 30K. I'd start there.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

+1 caster level is quite a different thing. You can get much more in spells and effects. Beating SR is the smallest potato.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Don't forget, that +2 Int only gives a +1 bonus, tho.

+2 to spell penetration actually gives a +2 bonus, and considering how important that stuff is at higher levels, this shouldn't come for such a neglectable cost.

Also remember, that defense is pretty much always cheaper than offense in magic items!

No disrespect intended, but you completely dodged my argument while pretending to address it.

Yes or no, would you rather have +2 Int as a Wizard or +2 on penetrating SR? It is primarily offensive, so it should cost more?

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

I'd say 20,000gp for a +2 bonus slotted item. (Caster level is inherently better. Besides, the orange ioun stone is slotless.)



Probably 200,000gp for a +4 and 1 million gp for a +6. I wouldn't want to see these items often in pre-epic play.

 

[Thanee]

No disrespect intended, but you completely dodged my argument while pretending to address it.

Yes, because I think you cannot compare them that way, really.

Yes or no, would you rather have +2 Int as a Wizard or +2 on penetrating SR? It is primarily offensive, so it should cost more?

I'd like to have both.

Int is very good, mostly because it boosts the DC (extra spells are always welcome, too) and once you start encountering creatures with SR, anything that boosts caster level to overcome it is crucial. There are already two feats, that do so (three with Fortify Spell). And if you have lots of sources, which stack... SR? What's that!?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

For me. Applying the test of 'is it so good that I'd take it before any other item'... The answer is a yes.

I do not believe you.

Consider the following list of 10 items:
A. Headband of Intellect +4
B. Amulet of Health +4
C. Cloak of Resistance +4
D. Winged Boots
E. Bracers of Armor +4
F. Lesser Rod of Quickening
G. Pearl of Power IV
H. Bag of Holding, 1500 lb.
I. Amulet of Armor +3
J. Rod of Spell Penetration +4

Are you seriously suggesting that if you were an 11th level Wizard and could have one and only one of the items of the above list you would definitely pick item J before all others?

Heck, I bet if I allowed players to choose 3 or 4 from that list of 10, most would not pick item J. I would put it about #6 on my ordered list of preferences, but that is partially a style thing. Even a pure blaster Wizard is definitely going to grab the Headband and/or the Rod of Quickening over the Spell Penetration item.

If Spell Penetration +4 falls somewhere near the middle of a list of ~16k gp items, then the (n^2 * 1000) price formula works. Either that or you have to argue that all items in the DMG are priced too cheaply.

 

[Thanee]

If it would be only one choice, I'd pick the cloak of resistance for sure.

But it's not about limited choice. An item like that is just like the headband of intellect... a complete no-brainer. It saves TWO valuable feats for the spellcasters, who don't really have feats to spare normally.

For those who want to ignore SR, it allows to raise their caster level by +8 total, if it stacks with the feats. If it doesn't stack with the feats, you could as well remove the feats from the list as noone would pick them over that item.

Bye
Thanee