Pricing: Magical Bonuses -> Nonmagical ones

[Stalker0]

I'm playing a 16th level monk, and my party has just recieved a boatload of gold and items in preparation for a major plotbased assault into this hellish world. In general, my character is very selfreliant, so the idea of decking him out in massive bling just doesn't sit right.

What I would like to do is convert some of his regular magic items into "innate" abilities. For example, bracers of armor +4 -> nonmagical +4 armor bonus to AC. Note its still an armor bonus, and wouldn't stack with other armor bonuses, just like +2 "innate" enhancement bonus to strength wouldn't stack with a belt of giant strength.

My initial estimation would be x2.15 the market price. In my opinion, the main benefit of my idea comes at the following times:

1) Party is captured
2) Antimagic field
3) Rare event a magic item is specifically targetting for dispel magic.

At all other times and the majority of encounters, these innate abilities would be just as useful as a slotless item, which costs x2. My dm does not heavily use antimagic fields or targetting of dispels on items. We have gotten captured a couple of times.

What do all think would be a good standard multiplier for converting standard magic items into innate abilities for my circumstance?

 

[saucercrab]

I'm assuming these abilities would be considered (su), per the remarks about AMF.

Questions:
1. How would this be done in-game? (I.e., what's the source of these abilities?)
2. Would these abilities still take up magic item slots?
3. How did you come up with [market price x 2.15]?

Right now, I can't see the rationale for this to work in the game. (Also, shouldn't this be in House Rules?)

 

[Stalker0]

Basically, my character is going to go on a religious pilgrimege, giving up much of his worldly goods (gold). He will return stronger (the innate bonuses).

These abilities will not take up item slots. Basically first I convert the abilities to slotless items. For example, Bracers of Armor +4 to an ioun stone that gives a +4 armor bonus. This doubles the price of the item (x2). Now I want to push that a little further, I want to make them nonmagical at all.

I chose an extra 15% in the cost because in certain situations this will be very useful. For example, my items will still function in an antimagic field. On the other hand, most of the time these abilities won't be any more useful than someone with just the ioun stone. So I started an initial estimate at x2.15

 

[calypso15]

They also can't be stolen/sundered/detected.

First, I would mandate that they are still magical and thus don't function in an AMF/can be detected via Detect Magic.

Then, I would suggest that they do take a slot, and require a magical tattoo (which requires expensive components, thus justifying the cost) in the same general location as the item. For instance, Bracers of Armor would require a tattoo on/near your wrists.

After all that, I would probably make the price around 1.25x the base price.

But that's just my take.

Calypso

 

[Eloi]

For considerably more expense, you might consider turning these bonuses into Holy bonuses. I'd forgetting what the cost multiplier is to do that (it might be in the Epic book), but this would leave you with enhancements that are only really noticable under two conditions:

1. Someone with True Sight peers at you.

2. A creature that's pretty evil, and possesses some degree of Sense Good, is using its Sense and looking for something with it.

You might even find your character being tracked in the second way.. which might seem pretty neat to you, or disquieting, depending.

The good news is, Holy bonuses would stay with you even if captured. You are also assuming the mantle of "most likely to be abused for demonic kicks", so I think a degree of caution is advised.

If I had to house-rule it, this is the way I'd go. These will be pretty expensive, but you may feel they are worth it.

 

[Stalker0]

Here's the thing, other than flavor, how often do you think this extra benefit will come up?

We don't have bad guys scanning our items all the time, sundering is rare in our games, and as I stated antimagic fields are rare anyway. I mean it will be pretty nice in those 5% of combats when the evil bad guy dispells all our items and I'm kicking butt, but how about the 95% of other combats when the other characters have more stuff than I do because I spent all of that money on innate benefits?

I'm willing to pay more, but I think anything over 220% would be very unreasonable.

 

[saucercrab]

Basically, my character is going to go on a religious pilgrimege, giving up much of his worldly goods (gold). He will return stronger (the innate bonuses).

What type of religious pilgrimage? VoP pops into my head now.

These abilities will not take up item slots.

That can lead to abuse. Is there anything that would prohibit your character from later on using a magic item that would fill the slot? (Also, does your DM use Magic of Incarnum? Or any druids in the party?)

Basically first I convert the abilities to slotless items. For example, Bracers of Armor +4 to an ioun stone that gives a +4 armor bonus. This doubles the price of the item (x2).

Okay, mechanically I agree.

Now I want to push that a little further, I want to make them nonmagical at all.

I chose an extra 15% in the cost because in certain situations this will be very useful. For example, my items will still function in an antimagic field. On the other hand, most of the time these abilities won't be any more useful than someone with just the ioun stone. So I started an initial estimate at x2.15

Okay, now you say they would work in an AMF. An extra 15% seems low to be able to make them nonmagical, IMO. It may not matter much at lower levels, but this advantage becomes more & more useful the higher in level you get. (BTW, does your party have access to AMF?)

I still can't see a justification for this, both mechanically & flavor-ly, especially now with the nonmagical aspect. Your character wants to give up all/most of his possessions, but still benefit from them, gaining the bonuses he chooses, & will never ever have to worry about losing them?

Another question: given that your GM does allow this & your character goes through with it, will these abilities be able to be improved? Say, sacrifice a few more tens of thousands of gp to boost that deflection bonus from +4 to +5?

 

[Stalker0]

Basically the pilgrimedge will be a religious journey across the ten lands in our campaign, giving up my worldly possessions as I do so.

As I said, AMF is a possibility in our games but it has never ever come up. My DM prefers fighter opponents instead of a lot of spellcasters.

Basically I'm trying to convey the flavor of a character with very few magic items, while still keeping pace with the rest of my party. And while these bonuses would be nonmagical there type wouldn't change. An enhancement bonus to strength is still an enhancement bonus to strength, IU couldn't have an innate bonus and stack it on a belt of strength for example.

But hey let's just call them supernatural abilities, so they don't work in AMF, I'm fine with that. So the only benefit I will ever recieve from this over a slotless item is if someone tries to take the item...which is very very very rare in our games.

 

[saucercrab]

Basically the pilgrimedge will be a religious journey across the ten lands in our campaign, giving up my worldly possessions as I do so.

Giving up your worldly possessions, but imbuing their functions within yourself? Are the items used up in the process?

Again, what's to stop you from still picking up & using other magic items?

As I said, AMF is a possibility in our games but it has never ever come up. My DM prefers fighter opponents instead of a lot of spellcasters.

I was thinking more along the lines of any PC's using it, so as to pit your monk vs the now hamstrung fighters w/ no magical equipment? (Assuming they aren't (su) at this point.)

Basically I'm trying to convey the flavor of a character with very few magic items, while still keeping pace with the rest of my party. And while these bonuses would be nonmagical there type wouldn't change. An enhancement bonus to strength is still an enhancement bonus to strength, IU couldn't have an innate bonus and stack it on a belt of strength for example.

Sounds like VoP, but with more choices & less restrictions.

But hey let's just call them supernatural abilities, so they don't work in AMF, I'm fine with that.

Okay, makes it a bit balanced.

So the only benefit I will ever recieve from this over a slotless item is if someone tries to take the item...which is very very very rare in our games.

And immunity to disjunction.

It seems that some of the factors that would unbalance this idea aren't present in your group's games, but they would exist in standard games (from what I've read/heard; my group's games I wouldn't consider standard, either).

At this point I don't think I ever can see the rationale to be able to do this the way you want to do this, so my input is pretty useless. I'll just back out now. :\

 

[Stalker0]

Alright, let me try to explain this better.

I'm not playing a vow of poverty monk or anything, but at the same time I don't want my character decked out in magical bling when part of his character is "reliance on oneself, not on the tools you weild."

Basically the pilgramedge is a flavor way of doing the following:

I'm taking some of the magic items I have now and spending the newly found monies my party has recieved, converting them into innate abilities.

What I want to know if how much that should cost.

Obviously it has to be more than x2, because slotless items cost x2. Slotless gives me the advantage of having other slots available for other items. Now the trick is to figure out how much more.

Keep in mind that the bonus type is still there. Its still an armor bonus, or an enhancement bonus etc. So I can't stack it with other magic items.

Further, remember that while the others in the party are getting very powerful magic items with their money, much of my money is going towards this innate idea. In the vast majority of combats, my innate ability will be completely worthless...it will just be flavor. Rarely, such as being captured, it will be very useful. So the question is, how much should that cost?