Priority of Immediate Reactions?

[eamon]

The fighter could, presumably, have readied his action on the rogue moving into a flanking position, so in this instance, I wouldn't penalize the player for imprecise wording. If he meant to hit the goblin while flanking, the PC can achieve that even if his ready trigger is a little unfortunate.

In the general case, if the two triggers are identical, I'd use an opposed initiative check to resolve priority. If the two triggers are not identical, I'd rule the character reacting to the earlier (in game!) trigger goes first, even if the game mechanics resolve everything simultaneously.

The game mechanics don't really address the flow of time this precisely, so I wouldn't lean too heavily on the fact that events resolve supposedly simultaneously. Obviously, you need to (begin an) attack before you miss, and the fact that the rules consider these actions "simultaneous" is an issue of a lack of resolution rather than a meaningful distinction.

My idea then - this specific trigger is mis-phrased do to a minor player oversight which I wouldn't punish (unless it's intentional or so common a situation as to be negligent). In general I'd go (when obvious) with in-game flow of time to determine order of resolution. When in doubt, I'd go with an opposed initiative check.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In this particular example, I wonder why the fighter wouldn't just make his attack anyway, since then his class ability kicks in and the goblin probably ain't shifting anywhere (unless he likes absorbing additional attacks!).

My ruling in the situation would depend very much on the situation. Has the fighter seen goblin shiftiness before? If not, the goblin shifts first because the fighter wasn't expecting it. Or was the fighter attempting to get a simultanous strike in? Would it be more dramatically significant if the goblin gets away or gets smacked by the fighter?

i.e. which option produces the best drama and 'fun' (as measured by us - not necessarily the same measure that anyone else here might use).

Cheers

 

[vic20]

My idea then - this specific trigger is mis-phrased do to a minor player oversight which I wouldn't punish (unless it's intentional or so common a situation as to be negligent).

In the situation where the fighter's partner was a warlord, the fighter could be waiting for the warlord to attack to take advantage of a sizable bonus from "Lead the attack" should the warlord hit.

I try to do what I can to be sure that the spirit of the readied action trigger is honored; usually this means guiding the trigger to being defined as a response to movement instead of the attack proper. In the case of the warlord, the fighter would be waiting for the actual attack for the bonus.

I appreciate all of the feedback. I think that simultaneous triggered reactions will go the way of Highest Dex, with a die roll to resolve ties in my game.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I appreciate all of the feedback. I think that simultaneous triggered reactions will go the way of Highest Dex, with a die roll to resolve ties in my game.

For consistency, I'd recommend highest Initiative bonus (the way ties in Initiative roll are resolved)... which in many cases will be the same as highest Dex, but there are other factors which can modify Initiative bonus.

-Hyp.

 

[vic20]

For consistency, I'd recommend highest Initiative bonus (the way ties in Initiative roll are resolved)... which in many cases will be the same as highest Dex, but there are other factors which can modify Initiative bonus.

-Hyp.

Good point. Does the following potential complaint re: this resolution have any weight in your eyes?

- Initiative count 5: Fighter moves to the goblin and readies his attack for when his buddy (warlord preparing "Lead the Attack") attacks the goblin.

Initiative order starts over at the top...

- Initiative count 15: Goblin attacks

- Initiative count 10: Warlord attacks the goblin, and misses.

In this situation, the Goblin would have precendence by the initiative-order-resoultion (15 vs 5), and would shift gleefully out of the way of the fighter's (now negated) attack. This might upset the sensibilities of said fighter if he were to think in terms of how long he had been readying (nearly a whole round) as opposed to the goblin having just attacked a few counts earlier. That said, I can easily assuage the concern by alluding to how important higher initiative is in the tactical timing of the combat abstraction and encourage the fighter to be aware of this.

Again, thanks for the feedback all. I have a good grasp on how to resolve this timing issue overall; I'm just fiddling with the crumbs in the corner cases at this point.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In this situation, the Goblin would have precendence by the initiative-order-resoultion (15 vs 5)

I'm not suggesting resolving in initiative order, but rather by initiative bonus.

If the Fighter-4 has Dex 16 and the Quick Draw feat, he has an initiative bonus of +6 (Dex +3, Level +2, Feat +1). If the goblin has an initiative bonus of +2, the fighter goes first. If the goblin has an initiative bonus of +8, the goblin goes first. If the goblin has an initiative bonus of +6, they flip a coin (or roll a die).

-Hyp.

 

[Sebby]

I'm not suggesting resolving in initiative order, but rather by initiative bonus.

If the Fighter-4 has Dex 16 and the Quick Draw feat, he has an initiative bonus of +6 (Dex +3, Level +2, Feat +1). If the goblin has an initiative bonus of +2, the fighter goes first. If the goblin has an initiative bonus of +8, the goblin goes first. If the goblin has an initiative bonus of +6, they flip a coin (or roll a die).

-Hyp.

That's how I'd rule it too. In a Ready Action, the Immediate Reaction is done on the same initiative count as the trigger. The goblin and the fighter are effectively acting on the same count, so I'd resolve the tie without additional dice rolling because the existing initiative tie breaker (init bonus only, roll for ties only) is directly applicable here.

 

[Keenath]

Assuming they trigger at identical times, I'd use initiative to determine which one goes first. (Either an opposed roll or just current init order.)

Same here. I'd probably just give it to whoever has the better initiative bonus, if it isn't very critical; otherwise I'd have them roll for it. (For example, if it's a big important fight and the target is a big important guy, they can roll off. If it's some goblin minion, I'd go with the easiest solution.)

 

[vic20]

I'm not suggesting resolving in initiative order, but rather by initiative bonus.

Ah. Gotchya. This works.

 

[eamon]

I'm not suggesting resolving in initiative order, but rather by initiative bonus.

Why not by initiative check? (i.e. roll a one-time initiative check for exactly this purpose). Using the bonus alone means that even small differences in initiative cause predictable order - which isn't really fair.

I suppose it's a matter of style/preference.