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Prismatic Rays + Divine Oracle

SadisticFishing

First Post
How does this work? Two attack rolls versus all three? If he misses ANY he's dazed?

That actually makes sense to me.

Any other opinions?

(Note: I mean Terrifying Insight + an attack against Fortitude, Reflex, AND Will)
 

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Kordeth

First Post
I assume you mean Prismatic Beams.

As I interpret it, you make one attack roll against all three Defenses, plus one extra roll that applies only to the Will portion of the attack. If both rolls miss the target's Will defense, you're dazed.

Example: Wizard casts Prismatic Beams against a monster with Fort 22, Ref 23, Will 25. Wizard rolls a 21. Wizard uses Terrifying Insight and rolls a 27. The monster is hit for the Will attack portion of the power only. Had the reroll come up 22, he would be dazed.
 


Byronic

First Post
I assume you mean Prismatic Beams.

As I interpret it, you make one attack roll against all three Defenses, plus one extra roll that applies only to the Will portion of the attack. If both rolls miss the target's Will defense, you're dazed.

Example: Wizard casts Prismatic Beams against a monster with Fort 22, Ref 23, Will 25. Wizard rolls a 21. Wizard uses Terrifying Insight and rolls a 27. The monster is hit for the Will attack portion of the power only. Had the reroll come up 22, he would be dazed.

I'll second this interpretation. The attacks against Fort and Reflex are not against Will and therefore do not count for Terrific Insight.
 

cmbarona

First Post
I disagree. There are not separate attacks against each defense; rather, Prismatic Beams is a single attack compared to all three. The attack is against Will; it also happens to be against Reflex and Fortitude, but that's beside the point as far as Terrifying Insight is concerned. The single attack can be rolled twice, and the higher number used to determine which defenses were hit.

The next question which stems from this is, what counts as a miss? I would argue that the attack only misses if it misses all three defenses, since Terrifying Insight does not specify that the attack must miss the Will defense specifically.
 

SadisticFishing

First Post
I think we're going with Ander00's interpretation, as it makes more sense.

Missing any of the things makes it a missed attack, I suppose. Otherwise it's just too powerful a combination.

Rolling twice against will makes sense to, I'll actually let my player pick between the two ideas.
 

GlaziusF

First Post
I think we're going with Ander00's interpretation, as it makes more sense.

Missing any of the things makes it a missed attack, I suppose. Otherwise it's just too powerful a combination.

Rolling twice against will makes sense to, I'll actually let my player pick between the two ideas.

A combination that requires you to spend a feat and give up the massive amounts of area damage you'd get with a wizard paragon path for some initiative goofery.

I think limiting terrifying insight to working once per turn might be better overall.
 

Ander00

First Post
Actually, after reading it again, I'd tend towards making the dazed condition dependant on the attack against Will only. Not sure which interpretation I'd suggest to the DM, but I won't be playing the character again for a while anyway.


cheers
 

James McMurray

First Post
A combination that requires you to spend a feat and give up the massive amounts of area damage you'd get with a wizard paragon path for some initiative goofery.

Divine Oracle is a lot more than initiative goofery. Immunity to surprise has saved my epic party more trouble than they know. The "you will score a crit" is devestating with a striker or well built fighter in the party. And the ability to roll twice vs. Will means you're much more likely to score with the nastier conditions.

As a Blood Mage player myself, I have to say it's nothing to sneeze at. You give up the ability to deal more damage on your own, but can add a metric ton of one shot damage and control. My next wizard may end up going that route (depending on what other broken PPs they've put out by then. :) )
 

Ander00

First Post
Also, for increasing his chance to crit, rolling twice is the closest thing a wizard has to the weapon mastery feats (and he gets it mid-paragon).


cheers
 

cmbarona

First Post
I just noticed... isn't Terrifying Insight only available to Clerics? Or is it possible for a Cleric to multiclass into wizards enough to get Prismatic (edit) Beams? (don't have the books with me, can't look up the exact rules)
 

James McMurray

First Post
I just noticed... isn't Terrifying Insight only available to Clerics? Or is it possible for a Cleric to multiclass into wizards enough to get Prismatic (edit) Beams? (don't have the books with me, can't look up the exact rules)

You can go either direction. A cleric could take the Arcane Initiate and appropriate power swap feat to get Prismatic Beams, or a Wizard could take Student of the Faith and go into Divine Oracle.
 

GlaziusF

First Post
Divine Oracle is a lot more than initiative goofery. Immunity to surprise has saved my epic party more trouble than they know. The "you will score a crit" is devestating with a striker or well built fighter in the party. And the ability to roll twice vs. Will means you're much more likely to score with the nastier conditions.

As a Blood Mage player myself, I have to say it's nothing to sneeze at. You give up the ability to deal more damage on your own, but can add a metric ton of one shot damage and control. My next wizard may end up going that route (depending on what other broken PPs they've put out by then. :) )

Okaaaay, so what about the second paragraph? Limiting Terrifying Insight to once per turn? Good idea, bad idea, terrible idea?
 

James McMurray

First Post
There's a Cleric / Divine Oracle in our epic game right now, and Terrifying Insight has been really nice for him. There are a few times when he would have been dazed because of it, but he's also an Elven Deadly Trickster, so he has a lot of rerolls.

I don't think the change is necessary. More uses of Terrifying Insight just means more chances to daze yourself.

Though if the campaign is centered on battling creatures who usually have low Will saves, it might be necessary to restrict it some. I'm not sure if there's a race or creature type with uniformly low Will, but its something to watch out for when designing encounters for a party with an oracle in it.
 

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