Problem with a lion.

[ColonelHardisson]

My guess would be that the males hunt at night because they are larger and slower than the females, and need to use stealth more when hunting.

 

[Breakstone]

I say work with it.

If she wants the pet, let her have it.

At the next monster encounter, have them find the monster feasting on the corpse of a... mother lion!

Gasp!

What harm could it do?

And by the time it grows up enough to be dangerous, she'll be at a high enough level to own something like that.

 

[tarchon]

1) I have been unable to find any information about the European lion other than it died out in the late middle ages and that it is not extinct.

2) What kind of explanation can I give for this thing? Why was it out there alone? Will its parents be coming? Do the parents have a pack or something?

1) They were probably extinct in Greece long before the Middle Ages. Your setting is towards the end of their tenure in Greece proper.

2) I recall some speculation that the European lion didn't behave quite like the African variety. Notably the males seem to have had much less prominent manes, and the reduced sexual dimorphism might argue for a social behavior more typical of the cat family. The pride behavior of African lions may be more of a weird local quirk than a general trait in common with the other now-extinct lions.
See the sculptures at http://www.varchive.org/dag/lionga.htm
Then again, maybe they just preferred to depict lionesses. Remember too that Greece in the Helladic/Homeric period was probably more forested than now and it certainly wasn't any less hilly, so chances are that the lions there had a different ecology from the ones we see lounging in the tall grasses of the Serengeti.

According to Aeschylus, BTW, the mark of Agamemnon's house was the "double lion."

For an abandoned cub, hey, what happened to most lions? Someone killed them of course. Maybe Herakles did it - anywhere near Nemea?

 

[arwink]

I say let there be singing. Lots and lots of infuriating singing. And when someting does come looking for the cub, let it be and awakened baboon Monk/Cleric.

 

[Mark]

The main reason (pun intended) that male African lions don't do well (and therefore, don't normally) hunt during daylight hours is their prominent mane which increases their chances of be spotted while approaching their prey through the brush/cover. Otherwise they are every bit as stealthy, fast and cunning as their female counterparts (and proportionately much stronger). If, as was suggested, the extinct male European lion's mane was not as prominent, they may very well have had quite different hunting practices.

Also, as was mentioned, there can be several male lions in a pride as long as all but one is not yet mature. Once a male lion reaches maturity, it is driven off by the pride's head male to become a rogue male and fend for itself. The exception to this is when sibling males both act as joint heads of a single pride.

Rogue males will continue to mature and hone their fighting skills until they have the chance to challenge the male head of an existing pride. The male that is the loser in such a battle (if it isn't killed outright or fatally wounded) will then become rogue and try to take the pride again at a later time. This cycle continues with all rogue males anywhere within striking distance throughout their lives. A male lion can be leader of a pride for his full adult life, for no more than a day, or never at all. It is in their nature to always be looking for the chance to challenge for leadership of any pride in their range.

It is also possible that a female is driven from a pride by an encroaching male who takes over the pride. This can happen when she is pregnant with the cub of the former male leader. If she in turn bore that cub, stashed it in a thicket (for safety's sake while she was off hunting) and she was killed by another predator(s), one might very well find a single cub (male or female) alone in the wilderness. This takes into account that it would have to be very young and not have been left alone for very long when discovered or it would already have been killed by a predator itself.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I think that your comment about the male being just as stealthy is directly contradicted by your comment about its mane making it easier to spot. Not arguing, really, just pointing it out.

I also believe that a full-grown male is not as quick as a female, due to its sheer size.

Otherwise, this all seems very accurate.

I was thinking that the North American lion of the late Ice Age period would probably be very similar in social structure to the African lion. This is a guess, based on the fact that they would have been inhabiting very similar terrain, at least those in the Great Plains area. I wonder if those further north would have been more like wolves in social structure?

 

[AvarielAvenger]

I think that your comment about the male being just as stealthy is directly contradicted by your comment about its mane making it easier to spot. Not arguing, really, just pointing it out.

Well, to put in D&D terms, let's say one Rogue likes to wear a bright red, garish cloak. Another goes with the more traditional reserved look. The first Rogue doesn't hide as well because of his garish, easily spotted cloak, but he has just as many ranks in Hide as the other Rogue. But he just looks too good in that cloak to drop it.

I also believe that a full-grown male is not as quick as a female, due to its sheer size.

Unlike what D&D would have you believe, Speed != Size. Male lions are just as fast as the females.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I have to dispute that male lions - full grown male lions - are just as fast as the females. I'm not using D&D as a source. The males are more powerful, but they are not as fleet of foot.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Not entirely accurate. The females did do all the hunting since they were smaller and more agile than the males. The males though did not just sit around and do all the eating. The males were the ones that patrolled the prides territory and defended it against all other lines that may try to infringe on the prides territory. This resulted in lots of walking the land peeing on the border and the ocassional scuffle with rogue males who were not currently in a pride.

From what I've seen on Discovery and what I've read several places, the lioness does all the hunting, the lion does most of the eating. Sure, he'll be around, but won't help much in the actuall hunt. Note that most prides have more than one female but only one male, I think. I'm no expert, but I tried not to say anything beyond what I assumed was common knowledge, so....

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Well, to put in D&D terms, let's say one Rogue likes to wear a bright red, garish cloak. Another goes with the more traditional reserved look. The first Rogue doesn't hide as well because of his garish, easily spotted cloak, but he has just as many ranks in Hide as the other Rogue. But he just looks too good in that cloak to drop it.

[/b]

Let's set D&D aside here. Essentially, then, the male isn't as stealthy as the female, because they are more easily spotted. I mean, I don't know of any male lions shaving their manes in order to be stealthier.

Interestingly, the man-eating lions of Tsavo (who were the inspiration for the Ghost and the Darkness, and are subjects of a good chunk of Col. Patterson's "Man Eaters of Tsavo" book written around 1909 about incidents in the late 19th century), were male, but did not have manes. I'm guessing that they were ostracized, so to speak, by other lions due to this lack of a mane - they wouldn't have a clear niche in the hierarchy - ended up rogue, and teamed up as hunting partners out of instinct.