Problem with Voidmind Wartroll

[Hypersmurf]

Was that a yes or a no Hyp?

There is a clause in the Regeneration description that prohibits a Coup De Grace with a weapon that deals non-lethal damage from threatening a regenerating creature with death.

-Hyp.

 

[Notmousse]

Ah. Thank you.

 

[glass]

It doesn't.

Really? From the SRD:

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal lethal damage to the creature, which doesn’t go away.

In fact, the SRD evn has a regerneating creature for which nothing bypasses it's regen: the tarrasque.

Only because the Tarrasque specifically says so.

If you allow the specific rules of the tarrasque to override the regen's general rule you also have to allow the specific rules of the voidmind template to override the general regen rules.

The voidmind has no specific rules on Regeneration, does it?


glass.

 

[Thanee]

True, and seeable from the followup posts on the topic, but at the time it was just a blanket statement.

Yeah, sorry for the confusion.

Saying that the blanket statement that everything that falls unconscious dies is in the monster manual description of the regerneration ability is ludicrous.

I didn't say that it is in the Monster Manual description. I just said, that once unconscious, death is waiting just around the corner, so to say.

Bye
Thanee

 

[lukelightning]

Technically a mind flayer can kill a troll by extracting its brain. The brain extraction doesn't cause HP damage, it causes death.

 

[James McMurray]

Really? From the SRD:

There's nothing in that description that says there must be a means of overcoming the regeneration, nor that this mythical necessity overrides other immunities. The war troll says it's regen is overcome with acid. The void mind says it's immune to acid. Ergo, the voidmind war troll's regen cannot be overcome.

I didn't say that it is in the Monster Manual description. I just said, that once unconscious, death is waiting just around the corner, so to say.

You didn't. Someone else defending the "you die when you're unconscious" blanket statement did.

 

[glass]

There's nothing in that description that says there must be a means of overcoming the regeneration

It says 'Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal lethal damage to the creature, which doesn’t go away'. Not might possibly deal lethal damage, but do deal lethal damage. It isn't strongly worded, which is why I just said it was one possible way of looking at it, but it certainly at least implies that if you don't have some way to bypass it then you don't have regeneration.


glass.

 

[James McMurray]

Ummm... ok.

 

[javcs]

It says 'Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal lethal damage to the creature, which doesn’t go away'. Not might possibly deal lethal damage, but do deal lethal damage. It isn't strongly worded, which is why I just said it was one possible way of looking at it, but it certainly at least implies that if you don't have some way to bypass it then you don't have regeneration.


glass.

So the Tarrasque doesn't have regeneration?

Regeneration (Ex)

No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.

The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

 

[lukelightning]

What is the CR+ for the voidmind template? I'd hope that the DM gives an ad hoc xp bonus for this situation.