Products you'd love to see published (but probably never will)

[Jhaelen]

Well, seeing as how Bahamut is Level 36, the bar has already been raised. I anticipate that Lolth will also be Level 36. She is a major (ie. popular) evil power.

Popular? Maybe. Major? Nope.

IIRC, they even mentioned in the preview articles for 4E that major deities like Moradin would probably be level 36. I don't expect anything to ever have a higher level.

I do think, btw. that 4e still has too few level 30+ (or even level 26+) 'monsters' to pick from. I really wouldn't want to run an epic level campaign right now (but then again I'm not a fan of epic level gameplay, anyway).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Well, seeing as how Bahamut is Level 36, the bar has already been raised. I anticipate that Lolth will also be Level 36. She is a major (ie. popular) evil power.

Well the bar was raised by Tiamat in the Draconomicon, that was prior to Monster Manual 2. Its certainly conceivable that Lolth could be Level 36...I think Level 36 is the maximum for Lesser Gods in 4E (I can't recall offhand if Lolth is a Lesser or Greater power now?)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Popular? Maybe. Major? Nope.

I'd be interested to hear what your criteria is for being a major D&D villain, or villainess in this case?

1. Created during 1st Edition D&D
2. Was the 'End Boss' of the GDQ Series of Modules (Voted greatest Adventure ever by Dungeon magazine)
3. Featured in the D&D cartoon
4. Commands an entire evil race...the drow no less
5. How many Driz'zt novels has she been in now...?
6. Is on the cover of Monster Manual 3

Frankly I don't think they come much more iconic than Lolth.

IIRC, they even mentioned in the preview articles for 4E that major deities like Moradin would probably be level 36. I don't expect anything to ever have a higher level.

Actually they said Moradin would probably be Level 38.

I do think, btw. that 4e still has too few level 30+ (or even level 26+) 'monsters' to pick from. I really wouldn't want to run an epic level campaign right now (but then again I'm not a fan of epic level gameplay, anyway).

I think there are too few Epic Level Monsters to begin with, and far too great a percentage of those monsters are Solo beasts (notably dragons). Thats something I'll be looking to change with my 4E books.

 

[grodog]

Things I'd like to see, but never expect to, in no particular order:

- Age of Worms hardcover
- Dungeon CD Archive
- Sepulchrave's Wyre setting (though I keep holding out hope on that one)
- Castle Greyhawk, Maure Castle, and Castle El Raja Key hardcovers (ditto)

 

[Jhaelen]

Frankly I don't think they come much more iconic than Lolth.

What do any of your arguments have to do with the question of Lolth being comparable to major deities?

Does Drizz't have to be a level 40 npc because of his popularity?

I'm sure you've looked at Lolth's stats in earlier editions (like the 1E Fiend Folio). Unless I'm totally misremembering things, she's never even been remotely as powerful as (major) deities.

Actually they said Moradin would probably be Level 38.

See, that shows just how good my memory is

I think there are too few Epic Level Monsters to begin with, and far too great a percentage of those monsters are Solo beasts (notably dragons).

As mentioned above, that's something I agree with.

 

[Upper_Krust]

What do any of your arguments have to do with the question of Lolth being comparable to major deities?

The initial poster commented as to Lolth being a major evil power. Our difference of opinion here seems to be on what criteria 'Major' is being used. You seem to think its a power reference (and perhaps it was) while I am taking it to mean iconic.

Does Drizz't have to be a level 40 npc because of his popularity?

No, and that doesn't stop him being iconic. However, when you list the most iconic D&D villains most of them will be very powerful.

I'm sure you've looked at Lolth's stats in earlier editions (like the 1E Fiend Folio). Unless I'm totally misremembering things, she's never even been remotely as powerful as (major) deities.

1E Lolth = Lesser Goddess
2E Lolth = Intermediate Deity
3E Lolth = Intermediate Deity
4E Lolth = presumably upper end Lesser Deity (since Intermediate is no longer used).

 

[jdrakeh]

You seem to think its a power reference (and perhaps it was) while I am taking it to mean iconic.

Well, in fairness, you're talking about Lolth in terms of character levels — and levels measure power not popularity. I think the point stands that just because Lolth is iconic, doesn't mean that she deserves more character levels.

 

[Rel]

Well, in fairness, you're talking about Lolth in terms of character levels — and levels measure power not popularity. I think the point stands that just because Lolth is iconic, doesn't mean that she deserves more character levels.

Unlike, for example, me.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Well, in fairness, you're talking about Lolth in terms of character levels — and levels measure power not popularity.

No, I am talking about Lolth being an iconic villain(ess) and thus its understandable why WotC would want her on the front cover of the Monster Manual 3.

I think the point stands that just because Lolth is iconic, doesn't mean that she deserves more character levels.

Who is saying she should have more character levels?

I stated initially I thought they would choose a Level 35 villain simply because I thought WotC would continually raise the bar by small increments.

I never stated she should have more levels because she is in the book, thats putting the cart before the horse. Rather I think WotC will choose a more powerful iconic villain for each book just to up the ante.

No one is taking a weak character and suddenly boosting its power 'out of the blue'. Lolth has been considered more powerful than either Orcus or Demogorgon for the past 25 years or thereabouts.

I don't know WotC's plans for the future Monster Manuals, though if I had to choose two Iconic Villains for Monster Manuals 4 and 5 I'd probably bet on Cthulhu and Asmodeus.

 

[Jhaelen]

The initial poster commented as to Lolth being a major evil power. Our difference of opinion here seems to be on what criteria 'Major' is being used. You seem to think its a power reference (and perhaps it was) while I am taking it to mean iconic.

Ah, my fault then, I just read 'major' and 'power' - sorry, about that!