D&D General Progressive Spells?

[cbwjm]

There's a series of books (I think the authors name is Andrew Rowe) that has magic kind of like path magic, people have an affinity for a specific dominion like fire, metal, sight and can learn to use magic within that dominion. More powerful sorcerers learn more dominions but those focused on a single dominion are typically quite powerful in it. I guess the most similar magic in DnD's history is dragonlance saga where you could learn only limit realms or sorcery or mysticism. I know a lot of people would hate to be so limited, especially if playing a wizard but I think it would be quite a good limit on spellcasting and would make for a unique setting.

 

[dave2008]

I think if you really want to have progressive spells, what you should do is create a completely new bunch of spells that get progressively better as you spend higher level slots on them. Not just the +1 die damage per slot level. Things like, if you spend a 1st level slot, it's basically burning hands, with a 2nd level slot, it's pretty much scorching ray, with a 3rd level slot, it's fireball, with a 4th level slot, it's wall of fire, etc. (And then get rid of the individual spells they mimic.)

Interesting idea. Not quite what I want, but thank you for sharing.

 

[dave2008]

It's a neat idea. Clearly, it would be better served by being built into the system but I've never let that stop me before.

Half-baked idea number one: D&D already has schools of magic for every spell so make the rule "to add a spell to your spellbook you must have another spell already in your spellbook that is from the same school and is at least half the level of the spell you are adding". Using the round down rules of 5e that means no requirement for any 1st level spell, at least one 1st level spell before you can add a 2nd level spell, at least one 2nd level spell before you can add a 4th, ..., and at least one 4th level spell before you can add a 9th. Not difficult but does meet the requirement of needing previous training in a school to master higher level spells. You can adjust this to be 2/3, one level lower, or whatever tickles your fancy. This rule wouldn't apply Clerics, Druids, Rangers, and Paladins since they can adjust their spell lists whenever. Perhaps Sorcerers are special because they get to ignore it too?

Half-baked idea number two: If memory serves Morrus' Level Up gives a bunch of "tags" to spells like Divine, Fire, Nature, Water, Arcane, etc. It would be pretty easy to make highly customizable chains from that. Every time you get a new spell level you just pick another spell on your class list that must include your chosen tag. Since many of the spells have multiple tags you could easily have two characters with the same tag that end up with entirely different spells.

Thank you for the suggestions. Idea #1 is definitely a simple way to get the basic concept. I don't think it does what I want, but I appreciate the idea. Idea #2, I plan on getting LevelUp when it comes out, so I will wait to see if it makes sense when it comes out; otherwise, it is probably to much work for me to add tags to everything.

 

[dave2008]

Here I am using 'problem' to mean something like - what does the design do for players that is meaningful to be done? It's a common phrasing for design work. One looks through a lense of problems to solve or jobs to be done. Benefits that matter. Change that makes things better. It guides to articulating the parameters of a good solution as a separate activity from working in solution mode.

As another poster noted, you stated a problem in the quoted part - you were thinking about how we learn and asked how magic could follow that in the simplest way possible. The problem then is that magic does not follow in the simplest way possible how we learn. I understood your OP. I was offering some ideas to efficiently reaching a solution.

OK, so your problem is that your post was not helpful. What could you do to make it helpful then.

Being a bit serious here, ideas are more helpful to me then suggestions on how to identify the "problem." I appreciate your concern, but I am basically a problem solver in my job, so I get it. This is just for fun, not something that I need to put my PM hat on to solve. This is not something to be playtested and published. It was a simple idea and request for feedback on if people had done something similar. Thank you for your input though.

Think about the work to revise the spell list?

Not required personally, could be handled minimally if desired, or could be a serious rewrite.

Quite a lot of effort. And you need your spell management systems on top of that.

Not sure what you mean by spell management, unless you are describing the system to assign which spells are needed as prerequisites for other spells. Yes, that would be some effort, but that is the fun part so we don't what to skip that.

Then playtesting.

Not required for me personally

And revisions.

Maybe, maybe not. Typically when my group houses rules something we try it out and if we like it great, if not we drop it. That being said, I like designing things, so for me personally a revision is a bonus not a cost.

The thought is to make clear what your payoff will be prior to paying that cost.

Costs for you are different than the costs for me and I have infinite resources so the cost is basically irrelevant. The issue is desire, which I lack at the moment. I basically have the concept I want, I just don't have the desire to implement it at this point.

 

[clearstream]

Costs for you are different than the costs for me and I have infinite resources so the cost is basically irrelevant. The issue is desire, which I lack at the moment. I basically have the concept I want, I just don't have the desire to implement it at this point.

You were going great until you claimed infinite resources Each design you assay, is a different perhaps more fruitful design not assayed. Each problem unarticulated, is a solution less likely imagined.

 

[dave2008]

You were going great until you claimed infinite resources

By that I meant thought / imagination. That is the only resource needed. This is not a project, but merely a thought, a whimsy.

Financially I am quite lacking at the moment.

Each design you assay, is a different perhaps more fruitful design not assayed. Each problem unarticulated, is a solution less likely imagined.

Sounds great, even poetic, but not helpful. Feel free to provide some interesting ideas if you want.

PS - sorry for being a bit cheeky, I just am not feeling it at the moment.

 

[dave2008]

You were going great until you claimed infinite resources Each design you assay, is a different perhaps more fruitful design not assayed. Each problem unarticulated, is a solution less likely imagined.

Clearstream, to be a bit more serious, the reason I have been silly with you is that you seem to have misunderstood the point of the thread. So I will quote the relevant part from the OP:

I thought it was an interesting, if not original, concept and I was wondering if anyone has tried it their campaigns.

I am simply asking for people's experience with this concept, not a deep dive into the design or how to solve "problems." Your whole approach really has nothing to do with what I asked. That is fine, it is a public forum, but it really isn't helpful, despite how well intentioned you seem to be, you've completely missed the point.

 

[aco175]

I would be more in favor of adding new avenues over restricting casters. There could be a feat that allows you to take a path like fire. Spells could be cast at 1 higher level or gain a free spell of the new level when you gain a new level of spells. This could also be baked into a new 3rd level path specializing in fire/ elementalist. Something could also be more a boon or such given by a god or such, but this may tend to be more DM controlled and fiddly a bit. There are a few other powers like not targeting someone or giving advantage to a save that could be worked in instead of just fiddling with dice damage.

 

[dave2008]

I would be more in favor of adding new avenues over restricting casters.

No thought of restricting (well at least not with this idea), just a reorganizing really.

 

[Stalker0]

I actually see progressive more in the inverse direction, where having both spells can empower the later.

Example: fly, while this spell is active, you can cast the levitate spell to refresh the duration.

normally fly is superior to levitate, but this gives a benefit for a caster who prepares both to get extra mileage.