D&D General Progressive Spells?

[Oofta]

I see magic more like math: you need to learn algebra before calculus.

Well, there's your problem!

The algebra is learning to cast a cantrip then graduating to 1st level spells. Making a fire chain is too narrow a focus for me. But if you and your group are into it, far be it from me to say no. On the other hand don't post "what do you think" if you don't want opinions that may be different from yours.

 

[dave2008]

..., which can be extra annoying if you require wizards to find their spells in the wild.

We basically require all classes to train to level up (downtime activities). Though you can find spells in the wild, you still need to research them before you can add them. And for my group, most spells are learned through more academic means.

 

[Kinematics]

I could see it as an independent spell-learning ability, outside of normal usage, particularly for sorcerers. If your sorcerer is fire-based, pick a fire damage spell chain (produce flame/fire bolt, burning hands, scorching ray, fireball, fire wall, immolation, investiture of flame), and you just get those spells automatically as you level up, independent of your normal spell picks.

Doesn't work as well for wizards, because they're so free to pick up new spells anyway. Clerics already get something like this, with their bonus spells. Could maybe work for druids (though, again, Land Druids already get bonus spells, but their theming is pretty weak).

 

[dave2008]

Well, there's your problem!

The algebra is learning to cast a cantrip then graduating to 1st level spells.

Well technically calculus is not the next in line after algebra and then there is calculus 2 & 3, linear algebra, and differential equations after calculus. So, I think the analogy still applies.

Making a fire chain is too narrow a focus for me.

What does this mean. I want to be clear, I am not trying to limit choices really (though practically it probably would some). I mean you could still have all kinds of magic, you would need to be a "fire wizard" or whatever.

But if you and your group are into it, far be it from me to say no. On the other hand don't post "what do you think" if you don't want opinions that may be different from yours.

This is a strange comment. I never said I didn't want differing opinions. I welcome them actually.

 

[dave2008]

I could see it as an independent spell-learning ability, outside of normal usage, particularly for sorcerers. If your sorcerer is fire-based, pick a fire damage spell chain (produce flame/fire bolt, burning hands, scorching ray, fireball, fire wall, immolation, investiture of flame), and you just get those spells automatically as you level up, independent of your normal spell picks.

Doesn't work as well for wizards, because they're so free to pick up new spells anyway. Clerics already get something like this, with their bonus spells. Could maybe work for druids (though, again, Land Druids already get bonus spells, but their theming is pretty weak).

Yes, other people have mentioned modeling after cleric domains as well. That definitely makes some sense. Probably the simplest method to adapt the current spell list. I think I might go that route too, in conjunction with overall idea of spell prerequisites. So you could have Wizard Orders (like cleric domains) that provide some spells for you, so you don't have to worry about getting iconic fire spells if your a Wizard of the Order of the Flame or whatever. However, spells still have prerequisites. So a Fire Wizard might get delayed blast fireball for free, but to get meteor swarm they would also have to learn earthquake (or something similar).

 

[touc]

Curious idea. I like to shake up campaigns from time to time with stuff like this. Will take a look myself.

 

[Oofta]

Well technically calculus is not the next in line after algebra and then there is calculus 2 & 3, linear algebra, and differential equations after calculus. So, I think the analogy still applies.

What does this mean. I want to be clear, I am not trying to limit choices really (though practically it probably would some). I mean you could still have all kinds of magic, you would need to be a "fire wizard" or whatever.

This is a strange comment. I never said I didn't want differing opinions. I welcome them actually.

Well, first, I didn't mean to diss you at all. I just happen to disagree. Sorry if that's not clear.

I could see having to take at least one evocation spell per spell level, I just think focusing on energy type doesn't work. What's the precursor to Evard's Black Tentacles? There are a lot of spells that don't do specific energy damage. But maybe I'm just confused by your example? I mean ... take spells that do acid damage as another example. The cantrip is Acid Splash, a conjuration spell. But that's the only spell that does acid damage, most of the rest are evocation.

To me spell school is a logical grouping that still gives you a decent spread of spells. Kind of goes back to the old editions where you had opposing schools, the spell school is all about how you manipulate reality. The theory and expertise is in one specialty of manipulating reality not the result of that manipulation.

 

[el-remmen]

I had something similar in previous iterations of my Aquerra homebrew setting (in 2e and 3e) but instead of being requirements, back when learning new spells took time and required a roll, learning spells on the progression was easier/faster if you had a previous one.

 

[Maxperson]

That is a good point, but doesn't worry me to much with my group. If it is a concern for others, someone mentioned spell paths that might solve that issue. For instance you learn the "fire" path and can choose from any fire spells. Personally I like the idea you have to build up your spells and plan ahead. Though I do feel it should be logical. Also, if you want to learn fireball when you get to lvl 5 and you haven't learned the required spells, you can just learn them. It is not like it prevents you from getting fireball, you just have train/retrain in the prerequisite spells first. I could easily see that being handled in downtime.

@Charlaquin's worry is valid, but is easily mitigated by making sure that there are scrolls and spellbooks to be found. You only really need to worry about planning when you are only getting your 2 spells for going up a level or a little bit more.

 

[Ath'kethin]

I had something similar in previous iterations of my Aquerra homebrew setting (in 2e and 3e) but instead of being requirements, back when learning new spells took time and required a roll, learning spells on the progression was easier/faster if you had a previous one.

Now that's a cool idea.

So maybe a specialist in [spell category X] learns spells from that group more quickly by default, and non-specialists learn them more quickly if they know the prior spells in the chain?

I dig it.