Promises, promises...what WotC said, and actually did, with 4E

[rounser]

The thing about crunch-before-flavor is... you can change the flavor.

If the crunch won't budge, and doesn't make sense in terms of any flavour justification, then the flavour is likely to be weak or poor. That's where flavour-as-afterthought gets you.

So the problem remains. Your suggestion is no solution.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

*snip*

I think the most noticeable thing here is the fact that nearly all races have some kind of special power that can be used in every encounter. Even if there were no Dragonborn feats, that 1/encounter fiery breath will always matter. Even if there were no Eladrin racial feats, that Fey Step once per encounter will always matter.

The feats just extend the time your race becomes relevant to your character "build".

 

[WhatGravitas]

The whiners denied us the possibility that wizards could have similar elegant merging of flavor and mechanics, instead guaranteeing that the wizard class boiled down to "generic wielder of elemental damage types." All because they don't like proper nouns. Fools, all of them.

Yeah - the wizard promised in the first article (and to a certain extent in the revised version) sounded much more interesting, whereas the current wizard in 4E looks "incoherent", compared to the other classes (no defining class feature, very different kind of MAD than others, and so on). Though I still dislike the "Emerald Frost" as term. But not the concept behind it (i.e. wizardly traditions).

Because new warlock pacts are interesting, so could be new wizard traditions. Now, we probably get new implements and some themed spells (like the illusionist) at best, that's not bad, but untapped potential. :/

Cheers, LT.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Lots of these abilities and feats enhance or are enhanced by comboing with other class-specific leveling benefits such as Burning Blizzard adding damage to acid or cold Dragon Breath. So whatever your view, there are more than just a couple of abilities per race that help more than just the 1st level for that race.

I don't know why you put your text in spoiler tags, so I didn't read it.

The thing with 4e's "race matters over all levels" was that it was a contrast to "3e races are unimportant" because they only gave upfront abilities. A dwarf's stability is always an ability in 3e, but they said it didn't matter because he didn't keep getting things.

So, the powers now might be more powerful, and the racial feats more tied to the system, but in contrast to 3e it's not a big deal. Certainly not the big deal that they laid it out to be early on.

 

[TerraDave]

Song

I didn't say races where unimportant...but it is my understanding they would have a "paragon path" equivelent for race for levels 1-10. That clearly changed.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Speaking of Cavalier, I remember that the initial outline for Paragon Path was different, and suited for multiple classes instead of just one. Interesting how this changed. I suspect they cut a lot of Paragon Path and Epic Destiny (look at the 3.5 version of Epic Destinies) for space (or for the sinister purpose of selling them later, or both)

Considering how small the DMG is compared to the PHB, I suspect that there was space somewhere. Might have made a good section of designing such material for your own campaign with several examples and such.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Was there ever an estimated time when the last of the 3.5 stuff would get it's free updates on the DDI?

Or since it's going pay soon are pepole who bought the books in good faith that there would be 4e updates now out of luck?

 

[Kez Darksun]

Was there ever an estimated time when the last of the 3.5 stuff would get it's free updates on the DDI?

Or since it's going pay soon are pepole who bought the books in good faith that there would be 4e updates now out of luck?

Yes, there was. The launch of 4th Edition was supposed to also bring with it critical updates for products that were deemed to be 4th edition compatible. The source for that is here.

Here's a list of what was listed there for convenience sake.

List of 4th Edition Compatible Products
Exemplars of Evil
Dragons of Eberron
Anauroch: The Empire of Shade (November 2007)
Elder Evils (December 2007)
City of Stormreach (February 2008)
Desert of Desolation Miniatures set
All other D&D Miniatures sets over time (timeline forthcoming)

 

[Raven Crowking]

Anyways, I think when the more-fluff-oriented editions have silly stuff like jello monsters, it kind of negates the idea that being crunch-centric results in silly, unbelievable fluff. To me anyways.

I tend to find the gel cube as believable within the scope of a S&S world.

RC

 

[Corjay]

I don't know why you put your text in spoiler tags, so I didn't read it.

I put it in spoiler tags for those who are familiar with all the feats and abilities and would prefer just to get to the meat of my points.