Proposal: Allow Metavoid to play a second PC

KarinsDad

Visitor
Metavoid currently has a PC in Stonegod's Race adventure.

However, he does not have enough XP to level.

That adventure has been going on for 5 months.

In that same 5 months, the PCs in my adventure are nearly level 6.

From my perspective, Metavoid has paid his dues and stuck around long enough to be entitled to play a second PC. Since this is not legal from a rules prespective, I am proposing a change to the rules.

5 months is a reasonable amount of time to be playing in order to acquire a second PC. Most people here who are playing a second PC were able to do so in under 5 months.


So, the proposal is to allow someone to play a second PC if they have made a level, or if 4 months have gone by in their current adventure and they haven't yet leveled. I think playing here for one third of a year shows enough commitment to be allowed a second PC and this rule would handle players in adventures that might be a bit more skill challenge focused, or adventures that have slow points in time for whatever reason.
 

renau1g

Visitor
I'm very sympathetic to this proposal. 5 months indeed seems to be in the spirit of why we have the waiting period. Metavoid's been active in that adventure and in L4W so I'm not sure if waiting a couple months to get officially leveled would demonstrate anything.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
I'm sympathetic to the idea, but as I am at work, I do not have time to fully think about it at this time.

KD (and other proposers): It'd be a good idea to post a link to the discussion thread as not everyone checks the forum directly as often as other places.
 
If Metavoid were to be awarded xp for everything his character has done up until now, would that be enough to level? In one of the games that I'm DMing over in L4W, I awarded xp before I intended the characters to level up (it was in the middle of a dungeon) so they could start building their second characters without having to wait for an extended rest.
 

KarinsDad

Visitor
With regard to Metavoid's PC, Stonegod mentioned in the other thread that he didn't quite have enough to level, even though 5 months of gaming is the equivalent of half of a level from 4 to 5 with player rewards alone.

The proposal (even though the title is for Metavoid's PC) is for everyone. Other first time players in Stonegod's campaign, for example. Anyone who has stuck it out for a lengthy amount of real time, even though the adventure they are in is slower than other adventures in handling out XP for whatever reasons.
 

renau1g

Visitor
As I mentioned before this is a pretty reasonable proposal as some adventure's will focus a bit less on combat encounters (which is where a good amount of the xp is).
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
2 Complexity 5 Skill Challenges + 1 Minor Quest: 770 XP per player
Even with 5 RP (for 5 months), that isn't enough for 5th. It will be after the next encounter that is starting now. In any case, they will not be leveling until after the extended rest some time in the future.

Per the charter, one can only create a new character when they have leveled a character. Changing this to when they "have earned enough XP and RP to level a character" would be fine with me.

A set n months (be it four or five)? I've had folks be around about that long and then disappear. Its probably the largest spike after those that just create one character and then vanish. I'm not adamantly against it, but I'm not 100% for it at this time. But I'll wait to see what THB & Evo think on this.
 

renau1g

Visitor
Actually I will look at the recent disappearances of PC's in my own games and come to a conclusion.

I'll also take a look at KD's & Scorpius' adventures as well. I'll see if Velmont lost anyone as well. I'd like to have a wide enough sample to gauge things.
 

KarinsDad

Visitor
2 Complexity 5 Skill Challenges + 1 Minor Quest: 770 XP per player
Even with 5 RP (for 5 months), that isn't enough for 5th. It will be after the next encounter that is starting now. In any case, they will not be leveling until after the extended rest some time in the future.

Per the charter, one can only create a new character when they have leveled a character. Changing this to when they "have earned enough XP and RP to level a character" would be fine with me.

A set n months (be it four or five)? I've had folks be around about that long and then disappear. Its probably the largest spike after those that just create one character and then vanish. I'm not adamantly against it, but I'm not 100% for it at this time. But I'll wait to see what THB & Evo think on this.
I opine that the XP is not what should be the deciding factor, rather the amount of real time the player has put into the campaign. XP is an indication of level, not player commitment. Time is an indication of player commitment.

As two examples, Sheeva leveled after exactly 4 months without using any of her Player Rewards and Faile leveled after 3 months and a week without using any of his Player Rewards.

Given a slightly different set of circumstances and using Player Rewards, this can occur in 2 months. For Sheeva, she had 1250 xp in game plus 350 xp for a total of 1600 out of the 1750 that she needed after 2 months. This was an auto-level up at 3 months (I just decided to not spend my Player Rewards because we were in another encounter before the end of the third month).

So I think that the charter needs adjusting so that the game is more equitable with regard to a second PC for all players, regardless of whether the DM throws encounters at the PCs or skill challenges.


What this would mean is that players can have a second PC after they level or 4 months, whatever comes first.

But waiting until sometime in July when your next encounter ends would mean 6+ real months for the new players in your current campaign. I'm big on fairness and I do not consider that equitable compared to what other players have already achieved. 3+ months vs. 6+ months? No comparison. One player is basically screwed on this.

Sure, it won't be totally equitable. But 4 months seems like a reasonable compromise when it's possible for other players to accomplish this in either 6 months or 2 months, just because they happened to be in an adventure with without encounters, or one with three quick encounters. The encounters only need to be 468 XP each (after doubling, or three n+1+ encounters).
 

renau1g

Visitor
The trio I took through the King's Forest mini-adventure earned about 1/2 or so xp in under a month and if I would've had another encounter there they might have made it all the way in 2 months. Personally, I like time basis, perhaps even more than xp.

In L4W, Mal ran an adventure where we leveled up in 19 days.
 
I'm torn on this. On one hand, three or four months seems a pretty large committment. On the other hand, most "regulars" have been around since the beginning. A bunch of people lately have disappeared.

What are Metavoids intentions with this? If he makes another PC, will that fill out out a party?
 

KarinsDad

Visitor
I'm torn on this. On one hand, three or four months seems a pretty large committment. On the other hand, most "regulars" have been around since the beginning. A bunch of people lately have disappeared.
Of the 5 most recent people that have disappeared that I know of, 4 had leveled and played for 4+ months: Cabana, Farce, RickRoll, and Kalidrev. So the rules change wouldn't had done anything for them. They would have still had the opportunity to create a second PC (and two of them did).

Zissou quit after a few weeks and 12 total posts. Again, the rule would not affect anyone who quit so quickly.

What are Metavoids intentions with this? If he makes another PC, will that fill out out a party?
I don't know if he intended to join Antithetist's adventure or not, but he was told that the second PC that he had already created couldn't adventure since his first PC hadn't leveled.
 
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Luinnar

Visitor
One of the adventure I am in L4W had a problem with half the party disappearing. It happened about 2 months in. Granted 2/3 were new to the forum (so was I (more or less) and another player however).

Perhaps post count could be a factor to consider as well? If they are active on other parts of the forums, they would probably be more likely to stick around.

As for MetaVoid, he does have two characters on L4W. He is in an adventure I am in and he is a good player.
 

Antithetist

Visitor
What are Metavoids intentions with this? If he makes another PC, will that fill out out a party?
I actually don't know whether he intended his 2nd PC to join my adventure or not, he's given no indication either way. However if this was to be approved and he did decide to join the adventure, it would certainly balance the party out, since so far we have 5 players and only one hybrid Leader (1 healing power per encounter). His 2nd PC is to be a Runepriest, so from my point of view it'd be perfect.

Actually, I'll PM him now and check whether, rules permitting, he's keen on coming on the adventure.
 

MetaVoid

Explorer
I just read PM from Antithetist.

I didn't show any interest (and mostly kept silent without having Orsik join active players) because I didn't think I could play.

Thank you KarinsDad for good intentions :)

I WOULD prefer to play, I have enough time to manage four characters and hope to gain 5th in time. That said, I have three active characters and therefore if this proposal doesn't pass I don't mind waiting.

In my first adventure, CaBaNa was DM, he dissapeared. And we lost half the party along with DM. I believe we lost total of four characters (including shamaness that didn't show at the start). Neurotic said that CaBaNa was caught up in some new work or extra work or something like that...and all players had under 200 posts total...neurotic, modest and myself finished that adventure and all three are still playing

Does that help the decissions?
 

Velmont

Visitor
I've lost 2 PC. The first just at the moment I was awarding enough XP to level (Radtash played by Impact) and I lost a second a few month later (Gruff played by Tinwe).

But I agree that XP reward are tricky, as they are not constant. Some adventure give XP fairly quickly, other more slowly. That's depend on the adventure itself, on the master and on the PC activity.

But I think if we seek a perfect solution, we won't find one.
 

renau1g

Visitor
So, the proposal is to allow someone to play a second PC if they have made a level, or if 4 months have gone by in their current adventure and they haven't yet leveled. I think playing here for one third of a year shows enough commitment to be allowed a second PC and this rule would handle players in adventures that might be a bit more skill challenge focused, or adventures that have slow points in time for whatever reason.
I've considered this proposal and I believe time is as good an indicator as XP awarded. It also will allow DM's to focus on story without feeling the need to have a couple fights to get the players enough xp for a second PC. If someone sticks out four months, that's likely a decent barometer for time as those who dropped out without leveling were (for the most part) under that timeframe, and those who've dropped over that amount had already leveled so they were eligible (and in some cases had) made 2nd PCs.

So, in other words YES to amending the charter to allow a person a second PC based on 4 months of time ACTIVE in an adventure. I think that's an important point to make. If someone disappears two months in and then comes back after a month off and plays for another month, they shouldn't be eligible. It's a corner case as those who leave usually don't come back, but just adding that caveat.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Do want those to be four consecutive months or four cumulative? If the latter, then we can just word it as "earned 4 RP (even if not yet awarded)" as you only get an RP if you complete the month.
 

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