Proposal: Minotaur - MM, (Dragon,) PH3 - which one(s) allow for L4W

[elecgraystone]

WotC expects you to buy their other books though. That's all I'm saying.

LOL And I expect them to fully support all active book including the MM. That's all I'm saying. Doing that in fact encourages me to buy more book, which is what you say they want.

That's why you won't see an errata for MM in the PDF excluding the MM races for players as they are reprinted.

However they changed stealth, put it in a book AND put out errata. If they are holding out info so you buy books then why give out errata. Just say buy the next PHB!

I'm not expecting them to put the full PHB3 race in the MM errata. They'd just need to replace the oversized with the racial power. Done. You still need the dragon/PHB3 for the full racial bonuses, feats and classes. That way anyone that made a core minotaur just upgrades their character instead of having to change things.

 

[LadyLaw]

They expect stealth to work the same for everyone. They expect monster races to work differently (over time) for PCs than for NPCs. Hence leaving oversized available for DM use.

 

[evilbob]

I think my understanding of how this works has been stated about half a dozen times so I won't keep going in circles. Additionally - as renau1g keeps trying to say - it's all moot anyway. Two things, tho:

And from my point of view that's the wrong way to go. it insures that there will always be two versions of the race as people with only the core making up MM minotaurs. They are asking for conflict.

This is the only thing you wrote that I agree with, and I agree with it completely.

You seem to think everyone had extra cash on hand. I'm glad you do but some of us don't.

Please don't attribute WotC's beliefs and opinions to me.

 

[elecgraystone]

They expect stealth to work the same for everyone.

The same way you expect stealth to work the same for everyone, I expect minotaur to. Without making the base minotaur match up with the dragon and PHB3 minotaurs, thing do NOT work the same for everyone.

As GM's can do whatever they wish to, they can add any ability they want. They don't need a PC race stats for that; only PC need that.

Evilbob, you said people didn't need to use illegal download because they could just go out and buy outdated books or buy DDI. I don't see how that isn't your opinion. Since you didn't say 'WOTC think you can do that', I have to infer that YOU think that. If that wasn't your intent, then your statement was poorly worded.

 

[LadyLaw]

I'm sorry, but the MM specifically says that the true intent of those stats is for NPCs although at DM discretion it could be used for PCs, so they aren't truly PC stats. Therefore no need to errata them since the NPCs are meant to work differently.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.

 

[evilbob]

If that wasn't your intent, then your statement was poorly worded.

Yes, you are right. I am truly horrible at wording things.

 

[elecgraystone]

Yes, you are right. I am truly horrible at wording things.

No worries. Ignore what I said if that wasn't what you meant to say.

I'm sorry, but the MM specifically says that the true intent of those stats is for NPCs although at DM discretion it could be used for PCs, so they aren't truly PC stats. Therefore no need to errata them since the NPCs are meant to work differently.

That's bull. [pun intended].

Open up the compendium. Type in bugbear and go to the race. Do you see that warning there?

Open up your CB. click on bugbear race. Do you see that warning?

Now go to the Adventure Tools. Is there a DM tool to make a bugbear using the PC stats? No

So the only tool that doesn't have the bugbear race is the tool for making bad guys for the players to fight? Seems VERY clear to me that WOTC expects and in fact encourages PLAYERS to make up characters from MM. Having that warning is fine if you used that book to make up your character. Now how about the person that used CB or Compendium?

Also, the new hybrid rules tell you something pretty close to the monsters section. 'use these rules with caution'. Even though they warned me that using them may be trouble, I expect them to update/errata them.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.

I'm fine with that.

 

[Mezegis]

I'm sorry, but I find this hilarious:

A person should be able to use the basic core books plus the errata to make a character...

...Open up the compendium. Type in bugbear and go to the race. Do you see that warning there?

Open up your CB. click on bugbear race. Do you see that warning?

Now go to the Adventure Tools. Is there a DM tool to make a bugbear using the PC stats? No

So the only tool that doesn't have the bugbear race is the tool for making bad guys for the players to fight? Seems VERY clear to me that WOTC expects and in fact encourages PLAYERS to make up characters from MM. Having that warning is fine if you used that book to make up your character....

In one breath you rant about people only using the core books to build characters, and in another say that a warning in the same core books aren't valid because it isn't everywhere else...

This is one of the many reasons I don't envy the judges, but IMO, once something comes out to replace something, no matter where it is, and regardless of availability, then it's replaced. Sometimes it will hurt you, sometimes it may benefit you, but once a change gets published, it's done.

Either way, the vote is cast, and we have short and long armed Minotaurs.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Open up the compendium. Type in bugbear and go to the race. Do you see that warning there?

Well, since you opened that door...

Open up the compendium. Type Minotaur and go to race. What do you see?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Either way, the vote is cast, and we have short and long armed Minotaurs.

Yeah. We have the official minotaur and then we have a houseruled minotaur with the oversized weapon feature that is then houseruled the other way not to use brutal weapons.



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