Pros and Cons of going mainstream
Upper_Krust
Hero
Weather Report said:
Plus the art also reflected this, 1st Ed. art had far more personality, interior art wasn't trying to be photorealistic...it was trying to educate about the game. Plus there were far more vignette pieces with PCs and either monsters or traps interacting.
Heh, in my 3.5 Barakus campaign the Wizard had a double digit hp lead on the Ranger!
Mix of random dice rolling and Wizard prioritising making himself stat-boosting items, inc a CON-boost.
Jeez!
OK, lets say its highly improbable, then.
But 4Ed doesn't have those random HP swings due to rolling for them, so its much more likely. In fact, as long as the builds don't change, the oddball HP result will be 100% reproduceable.
Hussar
Legend
DannyA - how does your striker have that many more HP than the ranger though? They both start with exactly the same baseline and advance at exactly the same rate. The only difference between your characters is Con. At best, you're looking at four or five more healing surges and maybe 8 or 10 more base HP and that's assuming the warlock has an 18+ Con and the Ranger has a 10.
I suppose that could happen. But, then again, if you did that in 3e, then the warlock would almost always have double the hit points of the ranger anyway. The warlock would be averaging 7.5 hp/level and the ranger 4.5. I'm not seeing the huge difference here. Granted, it would be unusual, but, then again, what you're talking about in 4e is unusual too. A two weapon fighter ranger almost certainly would have at least a 14 Con, so the difference between a melee ranger and a Con Warlock wouldn't be terribly pronounced.
Now, granted, most PHB Warlock powers are ranged, so, it's a bit strange to have a character who's almost never in melee have so many hit points. Totally grant that. But, beyond the PHB, that's no longer really an issue. There are quite a few melee style options for a melee warlock in the DDI.
I suppose that could happen. But, then again, if you did that in 3e, then the warlock would almost always have double the hit points of the ranger anyway. The warlock would be averaging 7.5 hp/level and the ranger 4.5. I'm not seeing the huge difference here. Granted, it would be unusual, but, then again, what you're talking about in 4e is unusual too. A two weapon fighter ranger almost certainly would have at least a 14 Con, so the difference between a melee ranger and a Con Warlock wouldn't be terribly pronounced.
Now, granted, most PHB Warlock powers are ranged, so, it's a bit strange to have a character who's almost never in melee have so many hit points. Totally grant that. But, beyond the PHB, that's no longer really an issue. There are quite a few melee style options for a melee warlock in the DDI.
Double digit just means more than 9... Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Ranger's sheet, so I can't speak to his actual stats. I just know he's at least 10HP fewer than Magnus- I only know because his player remarked on it. That started the HP comparison, whereby we found the Fighter had the most HP, Magnus came in second, the WarPriest third, and everyone else (of the regulars) lagging behind.
Still, Magnus Skyhammer is level 6 with 54HP- his starting Con was 16, his first stat boost got him to 17. He has one magic item- the Collar of Recovery- that boosts his HS by +1, so its at 14.
I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor do I intend to be a DDI subscriber. (Got lots of books, though.)
Besides, he's a Warlock/Psion who is going towards the Dreamwalker Paragon path. Almost without exception, his powers are going to be ranged. I plan on making the concession of retraining his Eldritch Blast to Eldritch Strike to address the campaign reality that the Elven Ranger needs a Dwarven kilt to hide behind. But Feats like Dwarven Weapon Training and Bludgeon Expertise are on a wish list crowded with psionic multiclassing power swaps and so forth.
(And of course, since part of his schtick is mobility that makes him harder to hit AND improves his accuracy- thank you, Shadow Walk & Hidden Sniper- he's STILL going to suck in melee, even with his beefed up martial ability. At least he'll have a use for all those HP & HS...)
Still, Magnus Skyhammer is level 6 with 54HP- his starting Con was 16, his first stat boost got him to 17. He has one magic item- the Collar of Recovery- that boosts his HS by +1, so its at 14.
I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor do I intend to be a DDI subscriber. (Got lots of books, though.)
Besides, he's a Warlock/Psion who is going towards the Dreamwalker Paragon path. Almost without exception, his powers are going to be ranged. I plan on making the concession of retraining his Eldritch Blast to Eldritch Strike to address the campaign reality that the Elven Ranger needs a Dwarven kilt to hide behind. But Feats like Dwarven Weapon Training and Bludgeon Expertise are on a wish list crowded with psionic multiclassing power swaps and so forth.
(And of course, since part of his schtick is mobility that makes him harder to hit AND improves his accuracy- thank you, Shadow Walk & Hidden Sniper- he's STILL going to suck in melee, even with his beefed up martial ability. At least he'll have a use for all those HP & HS...)
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1) that was value of Healing surges, not number. And he has 9 of them.
2) we haven't played in a while, so my stuff is stashed away except his sheet on my iPad. I'll see if I can track down my books. The numbers jibed with what came out of the OCB, though- the DM is a DDI subscriber.
2) we haven't played in a while, so my stuff is stashed away except his sheet on my iPad. I'll see if I can track down my books. The numbers jibed with what came out of the OCB, though- the DM is a DDI subscriber.
Hussar
Legend
Ok, compare that with a ranger with a 12 Con. Pretty low for a ranger.
6th level ranger would have 12+12+5*5=49 HP and a surge value of 12. Pretty much exactly the same. We're not talking huge differences here. Certainly not a ten point spread. Even with a 10 Con, the ranger is only losing 2 HP, for 47 and a surge value of 12.
I think there's something off about the math.
My point is, in 3e, this would net pretty much exactly the same result. 6th level ranger with 12 Con averages 8+6+5*4.5=37 HP, and 16 Con warlock averages 6+18+3.5*5=42 hit points.
Almost an identical spread in 3e as 4e.
6th level ranger would have 12+12+5*5=49 HP and a surge value of 12. Pretty much exactly the same. We're not talking huge differences here. Certainly not a ten point spread. Even with a 10 Con, the ranger is only losing 2 HP, for 47 and a surge value of 12.
I think there's something off about the math.
My point is, in 3e, this would net pretty much exactly the same result. 6th level ranger with 12 Con averages 8+6+5*4.5=37 HP, and 16 Con warlock averages 6+18+3.5*5=42 hit points.
Almost an identical spread in 3e as 4e.
If there is, its in the OCB.
The DM has all of the PCs in his account. I did mine by hand, but my numbers checked out. The Ranger's PC is entirely in the OCB- he often forgets his sheet, and accesses the DM's account via my computer, which is on my desk, adjacent to the game table. Sometimes, he even prints it from there.
The DM has all of the PCs in his account. I did mine by hand, but my numbers checked out. The Ranger's PC is entirely in the OCB- he often forgets his sheet, and accesses the DM's account via my computer, which is on my desk, adjacent to the game table. Sometimes, he even prints it from there.
Hussar
Legend
DannyA, I don't know what to say. The HP for a 6th level ranger is 47 presuming a 10 Con. For that ranger to be 10 HP or more behind you, he'd need a 7 Con. Possible, I suppose, but extremely unlikely. And, now we're discussing some pretty big outliers - a ranger player with less than minimum scores compared to a Con based warlock. Not that the warlock is all that out of line. It's pretty much bog standard. But, I doubt that he's 10 or more HP behind you.
