Psicrystals! Questions about them...

[KarinsDad]

And where did you get that "if you do not have a psicrystal" part from?

By indirect implication of the rest of the text.

There is no place in the psionic rules that states or talks about the fact that a character can have multiple psicrystals. All discussions of a psicrystal are singular.

For example, under Metamind, the Cognizance Psicrystal special ability discusses the Metamind storing PP "in his psicrystal", not "in his psicrystals".

In Improved PsiCrystal, "You can implant another personality fragment in your psicrystal", not "You can implant another personality fragment in your psicrystals".

So, there are a few implications here:

1) Like all feats, just because you could lose the ability to use the benefits of the feat at some point in time does not mean that you will always lose the ability to use the benefits of the feat. There are typically ways to reacquire any lost feat benefits.

2) The feat only allows you to have one psicrystal (as per the implications in the rest of the text) and you cannot gain a second psicrystal at the same time because feats do not stack (i.e. you cannot take the feat multiple times to gain multiple psicrystals).

3) There is no section on permanent loss of a psicrystal. Like familiars, the implication is that if you lose one, you can replace one. They are merely constucts after all and it should be easy to replace a construct that you created once before. You shouldn't lose the knowledge on how to create one.

Is this all clearly spelled out in the rules? No. But, the implication is fairly clear.


Looking beyond this (i.e. "it does not say that, so it does not imply that") is mostly just rules lawyering and does not seem to be what most reasonable DMs would adjudicate (IMO).

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

How many psicrystals can you have at a time then (with one feat)?

One.

Benefit: This feat allows you to gain a psicrystal.

"A" means one. You have the ability to gain a psicrystal, not two or three. Do you have a psicrystal? No? You may gain one. Do you have a psicrystal? Yes? Then you have already gained one, and since you may not gain two, you may not gain another.

(edit)

Whoops, Dreamchaser already said as much. Good show.

 

[Thanee]

Correct. "A" as in "one".

So, at 1st level, if you pick up the feat, you can gain one psicrystal.

Now at 5th level, the psicrystal gets destroyed.

So, you want to gain another psicrystal now, but alas, the feat does not let you gain two psicrystals, just one.

You cannot gain another psicrystal, since you already did gain a psicrystal, and that is what the feat does: It allows you to gain exactly one psicrystal.

It nowhere states nor implies, that you can always have one psicrystal, it only lets you gain one psicrystal.


Now I totally agree, that this is kinda silly, and that there should be some way to gain a new psicrystal, if the current one gets destroyed (even though the rules do not offer this option -- note, that I have included that in my very first post already), but then - to be fair - there should also be the same penalties included, which the death of a familiar gives a spellcaster. XP loss and a year to wait until you can get a new one. That's a reasonable way to house rule it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

BTW, the flavor text also implies this (and more).

You have created a psicrystal.

Not: You have learned how to create psicrystals (or a psicrystal).


That knowledge is certainly implied, but it also says in the psicrystal description, that a psicrystal is a fragment of a psionic character’s personality.

Doesn't it make sense, that the creator has to "give up" something to this end? The "fragment".
Permanently allocating a feat to this purpose could be seen as such, for example?

(I like the XP loss better, makes more sense to me, that you lose some XP, if a part of your self, a fragment of your own personality gets destroyed.)


The flavor text furthermore implies, that upon choosing the feat you immediately gain the psicrystal, since you already have created it.

Of course, it's just flavor text, but it further underlines what the rules also state (except for the immediate part, nothing in the benefit section states that you have to gain the psicrystal immediately (altho I wouldn't know why one would want to wait with that, anyways )).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

That would be true if the feat said that you can gain a psicrystal, once. But it doesn't.

It says that you can gain a psicrystal. So when you lose your psicrystal, you return to the state of not having a psicrystal, but you maintain the ability "to gain a psicrystal." Since you do not have a psicrystal, you may use this ability to gain a psicrystal. You now have a psicrystal. You cannot gain two psicrystals, but you may gain one psicrystal again and again, since the feat gives you the ability to do so. As mentioned, the feat does not grant a psicrystal, but rather the ability to gain one, and that ability doesn't go away.

You never lose the ability to gain a psicrystal, but you never get the ability to gain more than one. That means that if you don't have a psicrystal, regardless of why, you can gain one. It also means that if you do have a psicrystal, you may not gain a second. Your ability to gain a psicrystal can be used any number of times, but it is limited by the number of psicrystals you currently have.

edit:

Also, reading the feat in such a way as that it grants you a single psicrystal causes a contradiction in the text. The feat allows you to gain a psicrystal. If the DM says "this means you get one psicrystal, once," and you lose your psicrystal, then you can ask yourself "can I, right now, gain a psicrystal?" The answer will be no. But the feat allows you to gain a psicrystal, and you still have the feat. So you can gain a psicrystal and you cannot gain a psicrystal, which is a contradiction.

 

[Thanee]

It says that you can gain a psicrystal. So when you lose your psicrystal, you return to the state of not having a psicrystal, but you maintain the ability "to gain a psicrystal."

Erm...

If you gain one psicrystal. Then lose that one psicrystal. Then gain one psicrystal.

How many psicrystals did you gain?

And how many psicrystals allows the feat you to gain?

There is no "ability" to gain a psicrystal, whenever you have none, and the feat also does not allow you to always have a psicrystal. It allows you to gain a psicrystal, not two, not three, not a hundred. Just one. Once (that's what one means).

Losing a psicrystal does not remove the fact, that you have gained one previously.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Asmor]

Erm...

If you gain one psicrystal. Then lose that one psicrystal. Then gain one psicrystal.

How many psicrystals did you gain?

And how many psicrystals allows the feat you to gain?

There is no "ability" to gain a psicrystal, whenever you have none, and the feat also does not allow you to always have a psicrystal. It allows you to gain a psicrystal, not two, not three, not a hundred. Just one. Once (that's what one means).

Losing a psicrystal does not remove the fact, that you have gained one previously.

Bye
Thanee

I guess it depends on how you interpret the feat. I, and I think most of the people who disagree with you, interpret it as giving you the capacity to have a psicrystal. You seem to interpret it as essentially giving you one psicrystal.

 

[Thanee]

Yes. But I don't think this is just one possible interpretation, I'm quite certatin, that this is what the feat (both the rules and the flavor text) says.

You have created a psicrystal.
This feat allows you to gain a psicrystal.

Anything beyond that is more than what it says.
Gaining another psicrystal after the first is destroyed is gaining two, not one (or a) psicrystal.

While I like it better to allow a character to get another one, once the first is destroyed (with appropriate penalties, of course), and I would certainly play it that way, I see nothing in the feat description, which says so, or even hints at it. And that is what I give as an answer to the question how the feat works, with the additional note, that this part could easily be overruled, if it is not to the liking of DM and players.

The question, basically, was, how the rules work, not how they should work.

The penalty for losing one's psicrystal is an opportunity cost; it is gone and the feat no use for you anymore. You do not suffer any penalties directly. Is that how it should work? Certainly not. You should be able to get a new psicrystal and make use of your feat(s) in future. But then, I also think, that there should be appropriate penalties (the same as for losing a familiar seem highly appropriate).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Len]

Yes. But I don't think this is just one possible interpretation, I'm quite certatin, that this is what the feat (both the rules and the flavor text) says.

You have created a psicrystal.
This feat allows you to gain a psicrystal.

Anything beyond that is more than what it says.

If you ignore all the other singular references to a character's psicrystal, that is. ("his psicrystal", "your psicrystal", etc.)

By the same logic, a wizard can have many familiars. (But a multiclass sorcerer/wizard can have only one.)

 

[Thanee]

If you ignore all the other singular references to a character's psicrystal, that is. ("his psicrystal", "your psicrystal", etc.)

Not sure what you are saying here?!

What does that do, except further underlining the singular I am already stressing in the quotes I used?

I'm fairly certain, that every mentioning of a character's psicrystal will be singular, since - of course - one character cannot have more than one psicrystal.


I'm also not sure, what the comment with the familiar is meant to point at...

A sorcerer can obtain a familiar.

It's just the same. Singular. (Wizards use the rules for sorcerers.)

Bye
Thanee