Psion as Wizard archetype − Happy Fun Hour

[Yaarel]

It seems to me, the Ethereal Plane comprises the Feywild and the Shadowfell. So, it might be accurate to speak of the ethereal ‘planes’.

• The Ethereal Plane is ‘shallow’, juxtaposing the Material Plane.
• The Feywild is still shallow but somewhat deeper, toward the Positive Energy Plane.
• The Shadowfell is somewhat deeper, toward the Negative Energy Plane.

In that sense, all animistic nature spirits are psychic presences having ethereal force.

Moreover, all ethereal forces are consequences of actions that are happening in the material, but also interact with those material actions.

Hence the sense of ‘echo worlds’.

 

[Yaarel]

The question (the one *I'm* asking, anyway) is not whether there's fictional or mythical precedent for teleportation, but whether it would be thought of as a specifically *psychic* power as opposed to simply *magic*. And while mental powers may very well be a good way of representing of Norse magic (I wouldn't know), I would contend that Norse magic is not what the average person associates with the words "psychic" or "psion". (That doesn't mean I'm trying to prevent anyone from making a psychic character that's outside of the norm -- only that I don't think those sorts of concepts should be the touchstone we use when designing the class.)

Conversely, people should associate Norse magic with ‘psychic’. To misrepresent Norse magic because of some other method of magic is somewhat problematic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I envision *most* disciplines being useable at-will, yes. With the option of being able to attempt disciplines that are either at or just above the limit of what you're capable of at the cost of exhaustion (which could possibly be mitigated if you're attuned to a crystal focus). Or you could make everything an at-will ability, though that would require more design work to get the balance right since it departs further from any existing model.

That would be a departure, D&D traditionally - and 5e is nothing if not traditional, this way - keeps at-will effects very muted in versatility & power. You'd be looking at an all-cantrip-all-the-time model.

If we follow the warlock model, your psychic would also have a small selection of spells that they can cast a limited number of times per day.
I'm not opposed to that either. What I *don't* really want to see, at least as a long-term solution, is an "all-spells-all-the-time" psychic. (If I just want to play a mind-mage, the enchanter already fills that niche; there's no need to create a new wizard archetype and slap a "psionic" label on it.)

5e is deeply committed to spells/slots as a primary model - as you allude to, for 'balancing' (ballparking, really) - and also just for the general flow & pacing of play. Every class in the PH uses spells in some way. When Mike Mearls went to design a Fighter sub-class that could do some non-magical 'healing,' he used spells/day of the existing EK as a model for it.

It prettymuch is all spells, all the time - the most you can hope for is for your 'spells' not to be explicitly labeled as magic.

 

[Mouseferatu]

And this is why the mystic is not out yet, and why the design team is in a very difficult place where psionics are concerned.

It's perfectly doable as a subclass or variation on an existing spellcaster--but then you lose the feel of psionics as being something truly different.

So there needs to be a new system, one that doesn't exactly or even too closely mimic the current slots-or-points/day model--but then balancing that, even roughly, with the existing system becomes a surprisingly difficult task.

(Take it from someone who's tried to design new spellcasting systems for past editions for material that actually saw publication, and--according to many, himself included--largely wasn't successful at making it work. It's a beast of a thing.)

I'm not saying it's impossible, nor am I saying the folks at WotC shouldn't try it. I'm just saying, even if it seems like it's been "long enough" from the customer end of things, there's a good reason why it well may not be.

 

[Wyvern]

That would be a departure, D&D traditionally - and 5e is nothing if not traditional, this way - keeps at-will effects very muted in versatility & power. You'd be looking at an all-cantrip-all-the-time model.

Which is a good argument for using the warlock as a model. Give each Path some basic low-level powers usable at-will, like eldritch invocations -- mage hand for a telekinetic, fire bolt for a pyro, some scaled-down version of detect thoughts for a telepath, etc. -- and make them eat up spell slots for the more powerful effects. (And for the record, I have no objection to psychic disciplines being regarded as a form of magic. Given that a bendermonk's ki powers are spell-like abilities, there's no logical reason why psychic powers should be something altogether different.)

Wyvern

 

[Aldarc]

Here are a few of my scattered thoughts on psionics and such.

Like many others, I also appreciate their presence in Eberron and Dark Sun. I enjoy the aesthetic and niche of psionic powers. They provide a different sort of "aesthetic" from standard D&D magic that I find useful for a variety of homebrew campaigns that I have devised and used.

I can also point to psionic rules that IMHO have done a good job of presenting the wide range of psychic, mystic, medium, paranormal, spiritualist, etc. abilities. A lot of this admittedly comes out of the 3.X era, which was my introduction to tabletop psionics.

1) Blue Rose (True20 and AGE): Blue Rose draws heavily on romantic fantasy, but it's use of psychic mysticism does a tremendous service of presenting how this magical "tradition" often appears throughout fantasy as a whole. (Weirdly enough, IMHO, BRAGE is probably one of the best systems for me to potentially use for a Sword & Sorcery campaign.) Blue Rose True20 and AGE treat powers almost as a skill system with checks against fatigue.

2) D&D 3.X and Dreamscarred Press: D&D 3.5's Expanded Psionics laid the groundwork for a balanced psionic magic system, as well as one that could potentially either supplement or replace arcane and divine magic systems in your setting. Dreamscarred Press took it and ran with it in beautiful ways in Pathfinder, actually providing even more solid balance on Expanded Psionics. But worth noting is that Dreamscarred Press initially used the True20 system for its own psionic campaign setting, The Third Dawn, before switching to Pathfinder, particularly after Green Ronin's support ended for True20.

3) Paizo's Occult Adventures: Paizo basically remodeled psionics into more "occult" mysticism, psychics, mesmerism, spirit mediums, and the like. I don't think that Paizo is big on psionic magic, and Dreamscarred Press had already become the leaders of the field for psionics in Pathfinder rules. So this rebranding gave paizo an opportunity to move away from "tradition." From my own limited understanding, it has been a fairly popular book within Pathfinder circles.

4) Starfinder: The beauty of Starfinder's "psion" is that it essentially exists as a subclass within the Mystic class, which also essentially includes "space clerics" and "space druids" as subclasses, along with akashics and star shamans. Many fans of psionics have advocated for moving psionic magic to wisdom (as intuition, ESPerception, and mysticism), and so this was regarded as a nice move. But it also highlights how psychics, druids, and priests often held similar niches as cultural "mystics".

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Which is a good argument for using the warlock as a model. Give each Path some basic low-level powers usable at-will, like eldritch invocations -- mage hand for a telekinetic, fire bolt for a pyro, some scaled-down version of detect thoughts for a telepath, etc. -- and make them eat up spell slots for the more powerful effects. (And for the record, I have no objection to psychic disciplines being regarded as a form of magic. Given that a bendermonk's ki powers are spell-like abilities, there's no logical reason why psychic powers should be something altogether different.)

Wyvern

You could even go further and say that the Monk is the 1/2 Ki caster to the Mystic, just like the Paladin is the 1/2 divine caster of the cleric. Then create a class that uses Ki point to fuel mystic powers, recovers on short rest. Set a list of abilities that represent mystics powers and let some archetype learns spell-like abilities like the 4 elements monk. I could try to create a basic attempt later today when my toddler will take a nap.

 

[SkidAce]

I would have gone this route...



but I reckon that ship has sailed.

 

[steeldragons]

General Psychic Powers/classes/ characters Thoughts.

I have elucidated most of this in the bevy of "psionics" threads over the years and those specifically related to 5e.

#1. Call them psychic powers. The bulk of the dissonance experienced by people is trying to shoehorn in a sci-fi term (psychic[powers] + bionics = psionics) into "magical" fantasy. The crystal-gazing or tarot-reading fortuneteller, the spirit-talking/channeling medium, Professor X/Jean Grey/Psylocke/White Queen/Saturn Girl/Martian Manhunter, the people with a specific suite of powers born of their own minds/mental control are all easily placed into a magical (high or low)/fantasy setting. Someone entering your mind, tricking it with illusions, speaking with/sending you "visions" (in your dreams or otherwise), or controlling you outright are longstanding fantasy tropes of all sorts: witches and wizards, genies and faeries, demons and angels. All fantasy. Not a piece of bionics/technological implants to "open/expand/warp" your brain to be seen or needed. STOP using the term "Psionics" in D&D to denote mental/psychic powers. Full stop.

#2. The character/class concepts for Psychics are broad and deep, both in terms of mythological and literary sourcing and spread of the types of abilities/array of powers that can be pursued. AS SUCH, the area of "Psychic Powers/Characters" is more than broad enough to include its own BASE class as well as multiple, individual, sub-classes of existing classes.

As "Arcane Magic/Power" [Yes, yes. I know. 5e doesn't differentiate "power/magic sources," as such. Just follow me...] has a Wizard primary/"full" caster AND an Arcane magic-using Fighter AND an Arcane magic-using Rogue AND Bard (which should/could have been the Arcane magic-using half-caster to match Paladin and Ranger) [...and Sorcerer...and Warlock...and Witch in certain systems...and and and...]

As "Divine/Clerical Power" has a Cleric primary/"full" caster AND a Divine magic-using Half-caster AND a Divine magic-using Sorcerer, "nature magics" use Druids (primary/full caster) AND Nature magic-using Half-caster AND, arguably, "nature" magic-using Barbarians...etc...

Psychic Powers[consider it "magic" if you like or not] easily avail themselves to a primary/"full caster" AND "Psychic power/magic-using" subclasses.

For starters, I would go with, Base Class: The Psychic.
Psychic base subclasses, "Disciplines": Telepath (mind stuff, communications, alterations, illusions).
Telekinetic (force stuff, easily teased out to specific elementalist type control for your Pyro-/Cryo-kineticists, etc...).
Clairvoyant (remote seeing and whatever cool tricks you can do with that)
...maybe Empath (for a psychic healer/emotion controller).

The "Half-caster" Fighter Type: Mystic [the class formerly known as the "Psychic Warrior"]: the psychic-powers/expanded mind/Jedi/Warrior "half-caster" subclass. As Paladin is a divine half-caster/fighter/"knight" cleric; Ranger is a nature half-caster/fighter/rogue druid; Mystic becomes the mental "half-caster"/fighter/monk[perhaps?] psychic.

Soulknife: the psychic Rogue or Monk [Psylocke ripoff] subclass, roughly equivalent to a "third caster" level of power to match Arcane Trickster.
Ardent: the psychic Fighter subclass [essentially a psychic Warlord-type], roughly equivalent to a third-caster level of power to match Eldritch Knight.
...maybe an Oracle: the psychic Bard or Druid [or if you want to mirror PF, Sorcerer] subclass.
...maybe a "Seeker": the psychic Ranger or Barbarian subclass...some remote seeing, some self-healing, maybe some animal control?

...if you want "psychomorphs" or "psycho-porters" [never been a fan of either as "psychic" type classes] you could get other Druid/Ranger/Barbarian/Monk subclasses.

As a subclass of Wizard...I'm just not sure how that works...flavor-wise or mechanically with the Wizard spells prepared...seems there's just too much in the base class that would need to be rewritten/reworked/reskinned (and/or ignored) to get it to fit as a wizard subclass. As a Sorcerer subclass with the casting stat reworked to Int. at 1st level and the spell point mechanic already being there...seems like a much better fit.

OH! AND a "Wild Talent" Feat for "old school" style random individual powers/randomly psychically aware/capable persons.

That should cover just about everything.

 

[Aldarc]

I would have gone this route...

but I reckon that ship has sailed.

From what I recall, Steve Kenson's Psychic Handbook was part of the basis for Blue Rose as written by Steve Kenson (and Jeremy Crawford)!