Psionic Books: WotC and Others

Not wanting to hi-jack but have looked into the malhavoc book Alzrius mentioned and it is n adventure supliment :-S

To be clear, Hyperconscious lists itself as an "adventure-sourcebook." What that means is that it's an adventure and a sourcebook together; make no mistake though, it's far more a sourcebook than an adventure - Of its roughly 160-page count, only about 30 are the adventure, the rest is all new psionic crunch.

I also found ,if thoughts could kill, and Mindscapes - a Psions guide, this book meantions its a source book written after and covering 'if thoughts could kill'. I am alittle confussed which of these would be the best to get or are they intended to be used together?

I didn't think it was very confusing. Hyperconscious' sales page simply notes:

Hyperconscious: Explorations in Psionics also updates all the psionics rules material from Malhavoc Press’ EN World Award-winning previous psionics books, If Thoughts Could Kill and Mindscapes, to v. 3.5 of the d20 System. This material is now fully compatible with the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Simply put, If Thoughts Could Kill and both Mindscapes books are 3.0, and Hyperconscious updates their materials to 3.5, along with having some new materials also.

I will say this though, the adventure found in If Thoughts Could Kill is different from the one in Hyperconscious, so that might be some reason to look at the former book.
 

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The Psychic's Handbook by Green Ronin is an alternative skill and feat based system. It takes some work but ultimately I think it's a better approach to the topic because the powers are open-ended while still being defined within the rules, and the use limitations are fatigue based rather than some silly spell point system. It's easy to learn if you're just introducing it and it's just one short book.

Psionics doesn't use "some silly spell points system"--it's used power points from the very beginning in 1e, so D&D spell point systems are copying from it rather than the reverse.

As far as WotC stuff, the XPH took many steps forwards but some steps back when compared to the 3.0 version (making the psions all int-based and adding the wilder were not good decisions).

I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Having different disciplines based on different abilities is a good idea in theory, but it has two major problems. First, while spellcasters can use any effect from any school equally with a high primary ability (assuming they're not specialist wizards), a psion needs to have high scores in every ability; that's a great balancing mechanism if it were implemented across the board, but if it's just the psion, it makes him too weak relative to others.

Second, in the change to 3.5, boosting ability scores became easier overall, and since casters don't have physical scores as primary abilities, boosting Str, Dex, and Con became easier to boost. Casting, say, bite of the werebear gives +16 Str; to a Str-based caster, that's a game-breaking boost, and there are many more where that came from.

On the introduction of the wilder, why is that such a bad idea? Wizards have sorcerers, clerics have favored souls, druids have spirit shamans, psions have wilders.

Complete Psionic has a reputation on these boards for being an unbalanced disaster, but I don't have it so I can't comment too much. Fundamentally, it's all basically a variant magic system and has similar balance concerns as the core magic system.

Similar concerns, yes, but it's not nearly as bad as core magic.

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As to my opinions on WotC psionics, PsiH had some great ideas and had a more unique feel but wasn't particularly well-done mechanically; XPH is the most balanced and streamlined psionics system in D&D but relies too heavily on Psionic X powers; CPsi is 1/8 good material, 1/8 broken material, and 3/4 crap. I'll throw in another vote for Hyperconscious and Dreamscarred Press material as well.
 



Psionics doesn't use "some silly spell points system"--it's used power points from the very beginning in 1e, so D&D spell point systems are copying from it rather than the reverse.
You have exceeded my knowledge of history, though I do remember PSPs from 2e. More directly, 3e psionics are based on 3e magic, as the magic was core and psi was not. Regardless of the organizational relationships, I don't like the idea that some fairly arbitrary and abstract reserve of power for psionics, I prefer fatigue. That way, if you can still think, you can still use powers.

I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Having different disciplines based on different abilities is a good idea in theory, but it has two major problems. First, while spellcasters can use any effect from any school equally with a high primary ability (assuming they're not specialist wizards), a psion needs to have high scores in every ability; that's a great balancing mechanism if it were implemented across the board, but if it's just the psion, it makes him too weak relative to others.

Second, in the change to 3.5, boosting ability scores became easier overall, and since casters don't have physical scores as primary abilities, boosting Str, Dex, and Con became easier to boost. Casting, say, bite of the werebear gives +16 Str; to a Str-based caster, that's a game-breaking boost, and there are many more where that came from.
I don't think psions should use physical scores. I do think they should use all three mental scores fairly regularly, because these three collectively represent the power of the mind. Incidentally, my houserules include most spellcasters using one ability for spell points and one for DCs, which I think reduces their power and makes more interesting builds.

On the introduction of the wilder, why is that such a bad idea? Wizards have sorcerers, clerics have favored souls, druids have spirit shamans, psions have wilders.
The issue I have with the wilder is flavor. I know what a wizard and a sorcerer are, and I can imagine them as being different. I know what a druid and a shaman are. Wilder, (and favored soul for that matter) seem like they were invented to fill mechanical niches, but I have no image of what one is.
 

The Wilder is the Psi Sorcerer- someone who has power derived not from study, but from innate ability. Unlike the Sorcerer- who, IMHO, should have had a bit of the 2Ed Wild Mage thrown in- the Wilder is clearly not as disciplined as his Psion counterpart.
 


You have exceeded my knowledge of history, though I do remember PSPs from 2e. More directly, 3e psionics are based on 3e magic, as the magic was core and psi was not. Regardless of the organizational relationships, I don't like the idea that some fairly arbitrary and abstract reserve of power for psionics, I prefer fatigue. That way, if you can still think, you can still use powers.

Well, psionic power points are there the same reason core has Vancian casting: it was that way in prior editions.

I don't think psions should use physical scores. I do think they should use all three mental scores fairly regularly, because these three collectively represent the power of the mind. Incidentally, my houserules include most spellcasters using one ability for spell points and one for DCs, which I think reduces their power and makes more interesting builds.

Using different mental scores is a far cry from using the 3.0 psionics system; if that's the only part you liked, you should have said so. ;) In fact, I'd also like to see them use different mental stats, since that's the way it was in 1e as well (your psionic potential and number of PSPs was based on a combination of the three). I'm fairly sure the only reason they didn't do that was that WotC were afraid to try something new, so they stuck with one key ability.

The issue I have with the wilder is flavor. I know what a wizard and a sorcerer are, and I can imagine them as being different. I know what a druid and a shaman are. Wilder, (and favored soul for that matter) seem like they were invented to fill mechanical niches, but I have no image of what one is.

Think of it this way. Wizards are those who pore over tomes and study for their magic, whereas sorcerers have their magic just happen, right? It's basically the same way for the psion and wilder. Psions are Zen masters, meditating all day and focusing on their power; wilders are X-Men, people who wake up one morning and say "Holy crap, why am I floating 3 feet above my bed and why is the house on fire!?"
 

Think of it this way. Wizards are those who pore over tomes and study for their magic, whereas sorcerers have their magic just happen, right? It's basically the same way for the psion and wilder. Psions are Zen masters, meditating all day and focusing on their power; wilders are X-Men, people who wake up one morning and say "Holy crap, why am I floating 3 feet above my bed and why is the house on fire!?"
I guess I already think of psions as being that (they're spontaneous in all mechanical versions I've seen). The psionic wizard is a bizarre little thing called an erudite. The psion is already someone with access to untapped but highly intuitive power.
 

...wilders are X-Men, people who wake up one morning and say "Holy crap, why am I floating 3 feet above my bed and why is the house on fire!?"

And in certain cultures, the answer is "Because you did something dirty and the gods are angry with you!"
 

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