Psionics and magic

[Digital Archon]

Ok,

I like magic, but i'm also interested in psionics for a possible Eberron game. how do these compare in terms of relative overall power? Is one way more obviously powerful than the other? Are they about on par? Are psionics too horrifically stupid to even bother with? I would have to buy the XPH, so i'm wondering if i should bother.

I understand that we're comparing apples and oranges in some ways, but when you think about it, apples and oranges are both round, sweet and fruit, and as such, have many similarities.

 

[HellHound]

... as do magic & psionics.

I'm a fan of the XPH, so take my commetns with a grain of salt, if you will...

But we've found them to be on quite equal footing.

 

[Psion]

It depends on who you ask.

Ask Thanee... they are completely horribly broken.

As for me... a few things need nerfed (sorry guys, I'm in the "no power needs +1 DC per pp" camp), but generally it's comparable. One of the complaints of fans of the old system was that psionics was made too similar to magic. IMO, the similarities were instrumental in making psionics playable without shifting the balancing points of the game.

 

[Turanil]

I also much like the XPH, and thus recomend buying it. I never got the opportunity to use it, but from thread I have read, it appears that Psions are slightly more powerful than Sorcerers (to whom they are somewhat similar), but can quickly exhaust their powers in one short combat. By the way: psionics really work like spellcasting with a spell-point system.

 

[Psion]

By the way: psionics really work like spellcasting with a spell-point system.

And crystals.

 

[Voadam]

Also, you can go with just the srd and be fine for 3.5 psionics. I have played a high level psionic character and run psionic monsters converted to 3.5 without having bought the xph.

 

[Mark Hope]

I've run a couple of Dark Sun campaigns using the 3.5 rules and both psionics and magic feature pretty heavily throughout. I'd say that psionics are well-balanced against magic. Their chief advantage seems to be flexibility - not only can a psion effectively "spontaneously cast" his powers, but those powers can often be modified on a case-by-case basis to suit the psion's needs. The various energy powers are good examples of this kind of flexibility. A psion can burn through his power points fairly rapidly in an extensive battle, but clever acquisition of power stones and cognizance crystals (psionic scrolls and power point batteries) can offset this. (I happen to think that sorcerers compare rather poorly to psions, but that is more because I think that sorcerers are underpowered, rather than psions being overpowered).

Psionics also has a different flavour in play to magic, especially if you use the "psioncs and magic are different" rules. I do think that the psionic disciplnes could use some fleshing out (they are more or less like domains, with only a few instances of more than one discipline power at each level) - at present, most of a psion's powers are going to come from the general list, with only a handful coming from the discipline list. I think the flavour would be even better if the discipline lists were larger or the general list smaller, but it's not a big issue.

There are also several very cool psionic feats to choose from, many of which incorporate the idea of expending your psionic focus. Psionic focus is a state of mind attained through a DC 20 Concentration check (usually a full round action) and expending it can power feats that boost damage, speed, power manifestation and a bunch of other neat stuff.

Worth a look for sure - not just apples and oranges

 

[Digital Archon]

Sounds pretty interesting so far, guys.

Would it cause a huge flamewar if i asked in what ways things were "broken"? If so, then it might be best to point me to some old threads on this topic instead of reigniting something better left dead.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Individual psionic powers are generally more flexible than their magic counterparts quite often...
For example Energy Ball which is effectively the psionic equivalent of fireball, except that it's 4th level, can be manifested as Fire, Cold, Electricity or Sonic Energy. It only scales with extra power points (the maximum power points you can spend on any power is you manifester level) but it almost effectively has Heighten Spell (like many powers) built in with those extra power points.

The main thing with psionic powers is essentially how effectively you spend power points (know when your spending too much or too little), as even a 1st level power with enough points added can cost as much as a 9th level power.

As far as the classes go...
Psion: sort of a combo between specialist wizard and sorcerer. Very good if you want the full range of powers.
Wilders: can be really heavy on the uses of powers and blasting with wild surges, but quite limited in what they can do. Probably a better multi-classing choice then psioncs though.
Soulknife: Really cool concept as a class that can create psychic weapons but has no psionic powers, but sort of odd in its implementation as a class. You'll see a lot of versions of 'fix the soulknife' on the web. They're to psionics, what monks are to divine magic.
Psychic Warriors: Perhaps one of the most effective classes right up there with clerics. They get fighter profeciencies in weapons and armour, with a few less bonus feats than fighters, cleric BAB and powers up to 6th level, all good powers mainly designed to enhance their fighting abilities.

 

[DerianCypher]

My only comment to add about psionics is that you need to decide how magic and psionics interact with one another. A lot of DMs like to use the variant that if you're using one to counter/detect the other it's at a -2. But if you do that you need to actually put psionic monsters in to help balance the psions in your group.