Psionics: Balance and Integration

[Staffan]

Schism --> Well... there was a reason why they changed Haste.

Note that Schism is a lot worse than 3.0 Haste. The big difference is that the schismed mind is 6 levels lower than you, so it can't use your three highest levels of powers, and it can't augment/metapsi powers as much either. It also doesn't give you the AC bonus (which was +4 in 3.0), it doesn't give you an action in the round you manifest it, and it's one level higher (and on a discipline power list).

All of that doesn't make Schism a sucky power, but it's nowhere near as powerful as 3.0 Haste. Haste could double your damage output, schism will at best increase it by 70% (20th level psion using schism to manifest a power augmented to 14 PP). A sorcerer or wizard can get similar damage increases by Empowering their spells, which costs a lot less.

 

[Thanee]

Note that Schism is a lot worse than 3.0 Haste.

Of course, it's just the multiple spells per round stuff, which the designers of the actual rules cut down completely (apart from Quicken, which Psions also should not have as spontaneous manifesters as the core rules obviously suggest). And the 6 levels ain't all that bad, really. There are plenty powers, which are fully effective without any augmentation and enough that are good without full augmentation still.

And dealing damage is not really a good way to use that kind of power, or to adjudicate its potential.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Testament]

Of course, it's just the multiple spells per round stuff, which the designers of the actual rules cut down completely (apart from Quicken, which Psions also should not have as spontaneous manifesters as the core rules obviously suggest). <SNIP>

They don't! Well, I've never seen any Psion use it, considering that hideous augmentation cost.

Metapsionics is nowhere near as effective as metamagic, owing to the focus blowing, and the fact that those pps could be used to augment the power.

 

[TheGogmagog]

It looks to me that the list of 'broken' powers is a lot shorter than the lists of broken spells for any other caster. I'd like to add it to my campaign next time I run.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It looks to me that the list of 'broken' powers is a lot shorter than the lists of broken spells for any other caster. I'd like to add it to my campaign next time I run.

Hurray! Someone here is convinced of the fun that is psionics, despite all the naysayers out here

~Rystil Arden, Telepath

 

[Saeviomagy]

Actually, I don't have any problems and I use Psionics are Different. The key is to give creatures with SR an equivalent PR and vice versa. After that, its balanced by the fact that the psion can't defend against magic just as the mages can't defend against her. Especially since most four-player parties with a psion don't have room for a wizard too, so now the entire party loses access unless they take 2 d4 hit dice casters. In fact, the Telepath NPC in my Psionics are Different campaign has been the least effective character in combat for his level throughout the entire campaign. When the PCs finally let him do some social manipulation, though, he did a good job at it, and he did save them from a beholder with an antimagic (but not psionic) central eye and psionic eye beams by putting out the central eye so that others could use their magic (but died doing this).

Of course this only really works IF you makes sure that there's a balance between psionic and magic creatures/npcs etc.

If there's a different balance point, then some assumptions can be made about each side. Specifically that the least common group will plan for the more common group and not vice-versa.

ie - if you're the only psionicist in the world, then you will not take dispel psionics as a power, because it will be useless. However the magic-users will almost certainly take dispel magic, which will prove useless against the psion. The less common YOU are, the more powerful your fundamental difference makes you.

And, lets face it, psionics have always been a bolt-on to standard D&D, so it's rare to find a campaign which strikes that 50/50 balance necessary.

OTOH, if magic = psionics then it's already taken into account, and no re-jiggering needs to be done.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Of course this only really works IF you makes sure that there's a balance between psionic and magic creatures/npcs etc.

If there's a different balance point, then some assumptions can be made about each side. Specifically that the least common group will plan for the more common group and not vice-versa.

ie - if you're the only psionicist in the world, then you will not take dispel psionics as a power, because it will be useless. However the magic-users will almost certainly take dispel magic, which will prove useless against the psion. The less common YOU are, the more powerful your fundamental difference makes you.

And, lets face it, psionics have always been a bolt-on to standard D&D, so it's rare to find a campaign which strikes that 50/50 balance necessary.

OTOH, if magic = psionics then it's already taken into account, and no re-jiggering needs to be done.

Even with imbalance, the lone psion still finds herself incapable of countering the effects of any other caster, and she is forced to take the feats herself if she wants to get Psionic items. Also, if she thinks she's alone and refuses to take antipsi powers, she will be in for a big surprise when the hidden illithids come out and they have antipsi.

 

[KarinsDad]

Not in 3.5 - but that's a general problem with Psionics, they are more 3.25 than 3.5, really.

Huh? What are you talking about?

Energy Substitution is a feat in the Complete Arcane 3.5 book.

Granted, it is not a core book, but then, neither is the Expanded Psionic Handbook.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Even with imbalance, the lone psion still finds herself incapable of countering the effects of any other caster, and she is forced to take the feats herself if she wants to get Psionic items.

Only if you're limiting yourself to defining "countering effects" as "using the counterspell option". Otherwise you can easily counter, say, fireball by using resist fire. Or magic missile by making yourself unseen. If you counter the effect, rather than countering the MAGIC, then you have no problems. The wizard, on the other hand, expects magic - to him having dispel magic/anti-magic-field/spell turning etc about is basically a dead-cert. Until he meets psions...

Also, if she thinks she's alone and refuses to take antipsi powers, she will be in for a big surprise when the hidden illithids come out and they have antipsi.

Because I'm sure that happens all the time in your average "psionics are uncommon" campaign. You've just basically said "psionics are SO common that illithids normally ready anti-psionic measures". If the illithids didn't know for sure that they were going to be facing a psion today, and psions are uncommon, then readying anti-psionic measures is a losing strategy: most of the time their powers will be wasted and useless against non-psionic enemies. Therfore it makes no sense that they did so. Unless they are specifically preparing for the party - in which case I'd expect EVERY party member is having some problems, no?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I disagree strongly. Illithids are evil. They'd be foolish to trust each other enough not to have some countermeasures against each other's effects. Hence, a city of illithids implies illithids with psionic countermeasures, even if otherwise there is almost no psionics.