Psionics Balanced?

[XCorvis]

Like Nifft said, 3.5 psionics are better balanced than spellcasting.

Just remember that you can not manifest a power using more power points than your manifester level. If you ignore that, all hell breaks loose.

I had a player who used psionics in a game and it left a bad taste. I later found out we were running astral constructs wrong, but that was only part of the problem. The character was using Overchannel to spend more PSPs per round. I eventually realized that this can be a real problem. My biggest beef with psionics is that you can spend far more of your resources in a single round than any other class. A spellcaster can only do one spell or ability, but a psion with Overchannel can blow a huge chunk of his PSPs in a single fight, making it pretty easy. Of course, the obvious fix for this is to run more fights in a row, but that's easier said than done, and it changes the tone of the game. For my current game, I've banned Overchannel and any ability that lets you spend more PSPs than your level. No one is playing a psionic character tho, so I don't know if that has fixed it.

 

[Nifft]

I had a player who used psionics in a game and it left a bad taste. I later found out we were running astral constructs wrong, but that was only part of the problem.

IMHO, the real problem is that players can abuse a system that the DM doesn't fully understand. :\ (Or just willfully misunderstand that system, and elude correction.)

Anyone using Overchannel should have been taking a bunch of damage from it. Anyone taking a bunch of damage regularly should be easier to kill.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nail]

Is it just me, or is psionics really overpowered?

Hello Rae!

This is a *very* old debate. So old, in fact, that the positions have become well-defined and entrenched. Frex, try a google search of these boards.

Is psionics overpowered? IMO, the answer is "yes".

 

[Patlin]

In our "all blasters" campaign, we have wizards, sorcerors, and psions. We haven't noticed a problem with the psionics being overpowered.

Anyone using Overchannel should have been taking a bunch of damage from it. Anyone taking a bunch of damage regularly should be easier to kill.

One of our characters does this *all* the time. It's become sort of a joke that he never got hit but still has no hit points at the end of the battle! Or he did get hit, in which case he's toast...

 

[Zurai]

A spellcaster can only do one spell or ability

Actually, a wizard/sorceror with access to 4th level spells can blow 4 spells in a single round.

Channeled Pyroburst (swift action xd4 fire damage to a single target) + any standard or full-round action spell (say a Fireball) + Celerity (immediate action to take another standard action) on the next initiative count + another standard action spell (another Fireball?).

That's using an incredible amount of resources for a 7th level wizard -- two 4th level spells + two other spells of any available level. It's actually a considerable amount more resources than a psion could spend in the same round.

EDIT: For reference, that's 24-28 power points' worth of spells in a single round, depending on whether you count the Fireballs as augmented or not. A 7th level Psion with 18 intelligence would only have 60 power points to spend for the entire day.

 

[Darklone]

Hello Rae!

This is a *very* old debate. So old, in fact, that the positions have become well-defined and entrenched. Frex, try a google search of these boards.

Is psionics overpowered? IMO, the answer is "yes".

Awww Nail, first you soothe the storm with a diplomatic answer and then you pour oil onto the flames with your last word.

Sooooo ... eefil. Inspiring. Thanks.

Anyone using Overchannel should have been taking a bunch of damage from it. Anyone taking a bunch of damage regularly should be easier to kill.

There's one NIFFTY little power called Vigor that takes care of most hitpoint problems psionic chars might encounter. Plus Psionic Body, my last level 7 wilder usually started combat with 100 hp. Not that he needed to Overchannel.

 

[Nifft]

There's one NIFFTY little power called Vigor that takes care of most hitpoint problems psionic chars might encounter. Plus Psionic Body, my last level 7 wilder usually started combat with 100 hp. Not that he needed to Overchannel.

Sure, if you have a round to buff before an encounter, and enough power points to spare.

- - -

However, in my experience, Overchannel and its follow-on Talented are in no way integral to Psionics. You can ditch them and retain everything good about the system. If you worry about there being a danger in their use (or mis-use), throw them away and don't look back.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Jhaelen]

I think samurais are overpowered.

 

[Bacris]

My experience is that a majority (note, I am not saying all) of psionic balance problems are a result a combination of the following:

#1 Players not understanding the system and using it incorrectly
#2 DMs not understanding the system
#3 Players intentionally taking advantage of #2
#4 Using non-standard encounter levels without taking the balance factor for psionics into account

Again, this is not to say psionics is perfect - I will never say that, and I devote hours upon hours of my time to supporting the 3.5 psionics system to the exclusion of the rest of 3.5. But, the problem items are fairly few and far between, especially compared to Core 3.5 (and especially when compared to 3.5 splatbooks).

If you're a DM that uses the 3.5 ruleset as written, without any rule adjudication for problem items, such as polymorph, wildshape, rope trick, elven cleric archers, and the like, then psionics shouldn't introduce anything you haven't already encountered in some form with the other systems. If you're a DM that does have houserules for the problem rules in 3.5, then why should psionics be any different? Why is it OK to houserule grappling, or divine metamagic, or wildshape, or rope trick, but psionics out of the box has to be able to balance on a knifepoint?

In my opinion, if you consider things from this perspective, it's not only at an acceptable level, it's better balanced than core - at least that's been my experience in 3 1/2 years of using the Expanded Psionics Handbook in my games. Your mileage my vary.

 

[Thanee]

What do you guys think?

There certainly are some limits, some of them are a bit more subtle and might be overlooked at first (always easier to concentrate on the strengths), but at the end of the day, psionics (esp. Psions; not familiar with the newer classes) are simply too powerful IMHO&IMX, yes.

Bye
Thanee