D&D 5E Psionics in a sci-fi D&D

[Mordhau]

But in a fantasy world that death energy is part of the physics of the world!

We're basically talking about sympathetic magic here and a kind of poetic logic.

The distinctions here don't really work on the basis of different kinds of physics, they work on the understanding that there is physics and not physics.

If you apply a rigorous enough system to magic than it does end up feeling like a kind of alternative science (such as in Brandon Sanderson), but that's not really the case even in D&D. You might know a bunch of things necromancy can do, but you don't know all the set of things Necromacy could possibly do, and there's no set of rules written down anywhere. If I make a new spell, I might balance it in the game, but as regards to how effects happen, it's just what feels right in a kind of poetic way.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

We're basically talking about sympathetic magic here and a kind of poetic logic.

The distinctions here don't really work on the basis of different kinds of physics, they work on the understanding that there is physics and not physics.

If you apply a rigorous enough system to magic than it does end up feeling like a kind of alternative science (such as in Brandon Sanderson), but that's not really the case even in D&D. You might know a bunch of things necromancy can do, but you don't know all the set of things Necromacy could possibly do, and there's no set of rules written down anywhere. If I make a new spell, I might balance it in the game, but as regards to how effects happen, it's just what feels right in a kind of poetic way.

All that means that the science of necromancy is incomplete. But that's true with pretty much any science.

 

[OB1]

So, I voted to keep it reskinned magic just to keep it simple, but think that writing up specific powers (like for monk abilities) would work just as well as long as the mechanics are kept on the player side to track (so as not to tax the DM with understanding a bunch of new rules) If I was implementing Psionics, I'd set up the mechanics this way.

You get a pool of Psi points that grows as you level.
You pick from a pool of abilities (or spells) for what you can do with the power or your mind.
Certain abilities can be used at will as long as you have a minimum number of Psi points (how taxed is your mind currently)
Other abilities reduce your Psi points until you can mediate to relax your mind (aka short rest)

So, if you want to be able to deflect blaster fire with your laser sword, you need 5 points in your Psi pool to use the reaction, but it doesn't lower your total.
If you want to mind trick someone, maybe it costs 2 Psi points from your pool, and you can't deflect blaster fire anymore (because you now have 3 Psi points in your pool) until you rest.

 

[Hussar]

There is one thing about it, it's pretty clear, at least from this poll, that people are not satisfied with a reskinned magic system but, want a unique system for their psionic characters. I might disagree, but, I can see when I'm very much in the minority here.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

A few people here seem to have a different definition of supernatural than the general populace uses. Supernatural is ghosts and demons and vampires and spiritual powers granted by deity-like beings. The main problem is that psychic powers have been represented in some cases as science and in other cases as spiritual. The ki/chi abilities of Eastern beliefs is the spiritual psychic powers, while the ones shown in many forms of media are just simply part of a person from birth or are given to them by scientific experiments. Firestarter by Steven King comes to mind. In comic books terms, this kind of psychic power could be classified as a mutation. And again, mutations are science, not supernatural. So for me, it all comes down to whether you want powers that are mystical or scientific.

And just for fun, here is the TV Tropes page for psychic powers:

Psychic Powers - TV Tropes

The ability to alter (or remotely observe) reality, directly tied to the mind/brain of the character. This is a specific form of Magic by Any Other Name, where the magic is named for some pseudoscientific relationship with the caster's mental …

tvtropes.org

 

[Cadence]

For a couple of reasons.

1. In SF, you are generally allowed one gimme. One thing that breaks science and you're good to go. So, FTL is fine in SF stories, so long as the rest of the story is largely plausible.

So, in Trek, is that Warp Drive, Holodecks, Transporters, Replicators, Spock's Mindmeld, or Troi's telepathy?

2. The purpose of psionics in SF is to allow magic in an SF setting without calling it magic.

Was it always? Or did they actually think ESP might be a thing at one point IRL that was explainable by biology, physics, and the electromagnetic spectrum?

3. The purpose of magic in a fantasy story is a plot coupon to get our protagonist to the next challenge. The purpose of the science fiction point in an SF story is to ground the story in a particular question. The reasoning is very different.

I like that and hadn't seen it before. Thank you.

But, as far as "how the world is supposed to be viewed" is a very fantasy genre approach that SF simply doesn't do.

Does SF just view it as the world? And is the approach much like the Skeptical Inquirer where the goal is to try and explain it?

It still isn't a distinction that makes any sense to me. In all of the psionics threads no one has ever managed to even remotely coherently explain to me how one way of using the nature of the reality to levitate things with your mind is supernatural and other way of doing the exact same isn't.

In a classic 1950s sci-fi story there might be a scientist investigating electro-magnetic rays and proving that a part of the brain people don't tap connects to it. In the story world it's all science.

The wizard comes in and does it with some words that have no reason they should work, and yet they do? You're right, that does seem unsatisfactory though. If we study enough, is it something that will be understandable, where we can write all the rules down and find some other force to add to gravity, weak, strong, electric and have an even-grander-unified theory? In a lot of stories is it that there is some force from a Universe beyond? Is it magic if the gods and demons do it, and they are so far above our understanding that we'll never be able to theorize how it works? (Why not? Story logic reasons?).

 

[Cadence]

There is one thing about it, it's pretty clear, at least from this poll, that people are not satisfied with a reskinned magic system but, want a unique system for their psionic characters. I might disagree, but, I can see when I'm very much in the minority here.

I wonder how it would work if it was.

Reskin Magical classes
New classes but can use some of the (maybe optional) mechanics
Totally new mechanics

And like I wondered previously, I wonder how the totally new mechanic folks will feel when the next thing done is a new magic class using those mechanics. I'm pretty sure the magic folks won't care if they're using a reskin.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

A few people here seem to have a different definition of supernatural than the general populace uses. Supernatural is ghosts and demons and vampires and spiritual powers granted by deity-like beings. The main problem is that psychic powers have been represented in some cases as science and in other cases as spiritual. The ki/chi abilities of Eastern beliefs is the spiritual psychic powers, while the ones shown in many forms of media are just simply part of a person from birth or are given to them by scientific experiments. Firestarter by Steven King comes to mind. In comic books terms, this kind of psychic power could be classified as a mutation. And again, mutations are science, not supernatural. So for me, it all comes down to whether you want powers that are mystical or scientific.

What does it actually mean? What is the difference in metaphysical sense?

 

[grimslade]

Sometimes I think Morrus just likes to see his forums burn...

 

[Cadence]

Sometimes I think Morrus just likes to see his forums burn...

Like pyrokinesis burn, elemental magic burn, or good old flint and steel?