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D&D 5E Psionics in Tasha

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
If people spent as much time designing the class they want as they did complaining about WotC not designing it for them... they'd all be better off. At least they'd have something they wanted to play. :)
My latest 2 characters I've just made myself and gave them whatever features I deemed cromulent. Type up something nice in GMBinder and get the DMs approval. Much easier than digging through tons of books when I already know what I want my character to do and how to balance it.
 

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Aldarc

Legend
If people spent as much time designing the class they want as they did complaining about WotC not designing it for them... they'd all be better off. At least they'd have something they wanted to play. :)
It's important to recognize that not everyone can so easily translate their class ideas or concepts to fully-fleshed out classes. Designing, writing, formatting, and play-testing can be a difficult and time-consuming process for a lot of people.

Plus, it's not always about individual tables, but also about creating a shared language and culture for D&D. You may regard this as seeking to impose their will on others, but I think it's less nefarious than that. I think people want to be able to enjoy things together and discuss things together. It's being able to discuss a shared psion together. It's being able to ask for advice on how to customize their official WotC psion on several forums without having to go through the process of first trying to establish "which 3pp psion?"

I don't think that casting aspersions on the discussion regarding psions, artificers, warlords, and the like really does the D&D community any favors.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Heh heh... so amongst all this talk about needing to add psions as a class we also have everyone throwing away all the existing classes at the same time "Don't need the Sorcerer!" "Don't need the Cleric!" "Don't need the Warlock!" "Game only needs 7 classes!" "Game only needs 4 classes!"

Game only needs two classes.

Fighting .... person.

And non-fighting person. Fine, magic-using Person.

And I am not convinced of the need for a magic-using person.
 


Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
It's not really standard D&D, but a game in which magic is something you learn about and acquire over the course of play would be very interesting.

I'm trying to imagine a game in which the player starts out knowing nothing about magic, or maybe ... just one spell. They know so little that perhaps they can only cast the spell once a day.

And acquiring new magic is hard, and uncertain. They would have to venture forth, perhaps finding hidden magic written down on parchments or in books, and they might not even be able to understand it!

Slowly, over the course of time, they might acquire a little more knowledge, and a little more magic.

That would be an interesting approach. Some game should try it.
 


TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
I'm trying to imagine a game in which the player starts out knowing nothing about magic, or maybe ... just one spell. They know so little that perhaps they can only cast the spell once a day.

And acquiring new magic is hard, and uncertain. They would have to venture forth, perhaps finding hidden magic written down on parchments or in books, and they might not even be able to understand it!

Slowly, over the course of time, they might acquire a little more knowledge, and a little more magic.

That would be an interesting approach. Some game should try it.
I know where you're going with this, but I was more advocating for an approach where any magical discoveries are fundamentally uncertain. Playing a class whose growth grants more magical power every level suggests an implicit promise to the player that more magic will be discovered.

But I'm on a big kick for more random/exploratory/roguelike play in D&D type games lately, so it's probably just me.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I know where you're going with this,

That makes one of us. My brain functions somewhat like Toonces the Cat is driving it; I am unclear on the destination, but it will be exciting and terrifying before the inevitable fiery crash.

but I was more advocating for an approach where any magical discoveries are fundamentally uncertain. Playing a class whose growth grants more magical power every level suggests an implicit promise to the player that more magic will be discovered.

But I'm on a big kick for more random/exploratory/roguelike play in D&D type games lately, so it's probably just me.

Essentially, OD&D, AD&D (pre-UA), and B/X function in a rogue-like fashion in many ways.

To make it moreso, simply strip away until you are left with a bare minimum non-magic casting class (Fighter) and provide for the acquisition of magic items (baked into the game) and possibly advancement through "boons" and story-based encounters (a passing wizard teaches you how to cast an enchantment).

Also? ELF NEEDS FOOD BADLY.
 

To make it moreso, simply strip away until you are left with a bare minimum non-magic casting class (Fighter) and provide for the acquisition of magic items (baked into the game) and possibly advancement through "boons" and story-based encounters (a passing wizard teaches you how to cast an enchantment).
That’s cool, there are games like that, but it’s pretty much the opposite of D&D.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I know where you're going with this, but I was more advocating for an approach where any magical discoveries are fundamentally uncertain. Playing a class whose growth grants more magical power every level suggests an implicit promise to the player that more magic will be discovered.

But I'm on a big kick for more random/exploratory/roguelike play in D&D type games lately, so it's probably just me.
What I think would be a lot of fun would be a game where everyone played completely non-magical classes. During game play they might come across a grimoire that one understood and learned, granted the knowledge to cast Magic Missile 3xday. Another might find the holy relic of Lathander that while attuned, gives the ability to cast Light 3xday and Cure Wounds 1xday.

By limiting magic that way, you could even give some spells that are above where party level would otherwise have access. Since the PC isn't dropping spells as often, being able to cast a 4th level spell 1xweek at 5th level isn't game breaking. It could be very fun.

Edit: changed non-medical classes to non-magical classes. :p
 
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TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
What I think would be a lot of fun would be a game where everyone played completely non-medical classes. During game play they might come across a grimoire that one understood and learned, granted the knowledge to cast Magic Missile 3xday. Another might find the holy relic of Lathander that while attuned, gives the ability to cast Light 3xday and Cure Wounds 1xday.

By limiting magic that way, you could even give some spells that are above where party level would otherwise have access. Since the PC isn't dropping spells as often, being able to cast a 4th level spell 1xweek at 5th level isn't game breaking. It could be very fun.
That's exactly the kind of play I'm going for. Much more like a Talisman or a HeroQuest, just more freeform.
 

Mmmm. I wouldn't agree with that. It's far away from current D&D, with the whole "chargen minigame."

But it's not far, at all, from OD&D and early AD&D / B/X.
I’ve played all those games. We enjoyed the classes and what they had to offer and not once did we dream of a different game with only two classes.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
I’ve played all those games. We enjoyed the classes and what they had to offer and not once did we dream of a different game with only two classes.
Personally, I don't know if I would want to do it strictly "classless"; I like the idea of having several classes, each with maybe one unique mechanic and some variation in starting gear and attributes. Like a super background. The important thing is that they have no built in "casting" progression and indeed, no actual progression features other than HP and proficiency bonus. Everything must be earned through events in play, not XP gain.
 




Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I'll say one thing

I am not surprised "Psionics as
Spells" is coming out in TCOE, a book with options that could sell itself on its own.

Not even a Season 8 Game of Thrones rules could drag this book down.
 

Azzy

KMF DM
Sure, but it is how it works by RAW. How do you do magic if there's no interface between the PCs and wherever magic comes from?
Not everything requires an "interface".

This whole thing is bizarre. Prior to this sidebar in the 5e PHB, no setting other than the Forgotten Realms had a "Weave" or an analogous concept. What this sidebar does is retcon an FRism into other established settings. It's unnecessary nonsense that will only annoy existing fans of other settings.

It's also an interesting thing to think about within the context of the FR itself—outside of Faerun, the goddess Mystra isn't worshiped, acknowledged, or even known about and magic works differently (see wu jen in Kara-Tur and Sha'ir in Zakhara). So, does this weave affect them, and when Mystra gets kacked as she is prone to do, does that affect their magic as well? Did the Time of Troubles, the Spellplague, and whatever else affect the magic of these cultures where Mystra is unknown and not worshiped? If it does, then why is she unknown, not acknowledged, and/or not worshiped—if her influence on magic is so ubiquitous then why isn't the knowledge and worship of her equally ubiquitous? Is this even addressed with the FR sourcebooks?
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Not everything requires an "interface".

This whole thing is bizarre. Prior to this sidebar in the 5e PHB, no setting other than the Forgotten Realms had a "Weave" or an analogous concept. What this sidebar does is retcon an FRism into other established settings. It's unnecessary nonsense that will only annoy existing fans of other settings.

It's also an interesting thing to think about within the context of the FR itself—outside of Faerun, the goddess Mystra isn't worshiped, acknowledged, or even known about and magic works differently (see wu jen in Kara-Tur and Sha'ir in Zakhara). So, does this weave affect them, and when Mystra gets kacked as she is prone to do, does that affect their magic as well? Did the Time of Troubles, the Spellplague, and whatever else affect the magic of these cultures where Mystra is unknown and not worshiped? If it does, then why is she unknown, not acknowledged, and/or not worshiped—if her influence on magic is so ubiquitous then why isn't the knowledge and worship of her equally ubiquitous? Is this even addressed with the FR sourcebooks?
You arent entirely accurate. Krynn had the three moons that represented the gods of magic, and those controlled how magic worked in that setting, so at least one other setting has a "weave." Dark Sun also has a different interface, resulting in Defiling magic for that setting. I don't think it has a name, but it too has some form of "weave."

As for the Time of Troubles questions, everyone on Toril was affected. And as for why Kara-Tur doesn't know her, who says that they don't. The god/goddess of magic in that area might just be an aspect of Mystra or vice versa.
 

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