D&D 5E (2014) Psionics in Tasha

[Maxperson]

It's impossible to get it wrong, the first law of D&D is "The DM is always right".

LOL Um, no. DMs get it wrong for players all the time. That's how groups fall apart.

 

[Maxperson]

WotC make psionics spells. We know that. What is your goal, if not to fox the problem yourself?

WotC may still create a workable psionics system down the road when this one bombs. You can settle if you like.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

LOL Um, no. DMs get it wrong for players all the time. That's how groups fall apart.

I've never known a group fall apart, and I make arbitrary spur of the moment decisions all the time.

 

[Coroc]

No man, that's again not what happened. It wasn't like the got feedback of "If you just tweak it this way it will work better!" nor is it like they didn't try other systems. The designs of those systems they tried were pretty good actually. Like Undrave said, some people liked the die idea they tried last. It's just that not enough people liked any of it. And they did react positively to treating it like spells. So they listened.

well i hated the subclass / dice thing. It was absolutely not what was needed for e.g. Darksun.
What i like and what is really a sound concept for me is UA mystic 3.
It has everything you need to model a 2e darksun Psion in 5e, you just have to limit it to the immortal, avatar and awakened subclasses and you are good to go.
also the talents as a featlike gimmick for non psion darksun chars is totally sufficient.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

WotC may still create a workable psionics system down the road when this one bombs. You can settle if you like.

And they may turn flying pig manure into a renewable fuel and save the world!

This is IT for psionics in 5e, and most of the players will be fine with it. I suggest you use one of the very fine 3PP options if you don't like it.

 

[Maxperson]

I've never known a group fall apart, and I make arbitrary spur of the moment decisions all the time.

I have. I've also seen campaigns end over bad decisions, even if the group didn't. The DM is not always right and in no edition ever has been. He just has the authority to do what he wants, right or wrong.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I have. I've also seen campaigns end over bad decisions, even if the group didn't. The DM is not always right and in no edition ever has been. He just has the authority to do what he wants, right or wrong.

Maybe you need to look at the factor all those groups have in common?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Is the DM going to let a sorcerer edit every single spell in the game every single time they cast a spell?

That's what psions do. That's why they usually are shoved in their own book.

A side question.

From your underlining of the words, I assume you think this is too powerful for sorcerers to be allowed to do.

If this too powerful for sorcerers to do.... why would it be okay for "psions" to do it? And aren't those "Psionic abilities" going to start with a basic version that costs 0 points? Something that may look, for example, like the Mind Sliver cantrip or Message?

Except Magic in D&D specifically refers to manipulation of supernatural forces external to the body. . .ambient to the universe for Arcane Magic and channeled from a deity for Divine magic.

If you're using powers internal to the mind, that is Psionics, not magic.

The "normal meaning of magic" has NOTHING to do with D&D magic. The "normal meaning" of magic means something that's outside normal rules, mysterious, unknown or unknowable. . .as in "it's magic" for something unexplainable. D&D magic isn't that. It's categorized, classified, studied. Spells have well defined capabilities, spellcasters have well codified limits. That's not the "normal meaning" of magic when you go out on the street and talk to everyday people about magic.

Arcane Magic: Energy drawn from ambient magical energies present in the world and manipulated through academic study and raw talent.
Divine Magic: Energy channeled from deities or other godlike extraplanar beings and manipulated through faith and prayer and ritual.
Psionic Powers: Energy derived from conscious thought and manipulated by will alone.

Sorcerers.


I will say more than a single word. Sorcerers by their fluff channel and manipulate their internal power, which is classified as Arcane magic. In fact, let me ask you this question. If Arcane magic was solely the province of manipulating external energy, why then does sleeping allow you to recover spell slots? And why do you have different levels of spell slots based upon your level and experience?

Those factors indicate to me that Arcane energy is just as much internal energy, as it is external. So, saying "Psionics aren't magic because they are focused on an internal well of power" seems to break with how magic is presented, which is both an internal and external source of power.

I didn't say that I personally could do better - but there were others on here who could. I didn't even say that it was bad, just "uninspired." It reeks of something designed by a committee to offend no one, to be patently uninteresting. It's a list of new spells, and if that's all it is, why not just leave it as spells and be done with it?

I have done my share of professional game design, and I'm doing it currently. And as a fan, designer, and gamer for decades, I can certainly pick out when something is uninspired. It might be that they felt they couldn't please everyone, so they made something to please no one.
Wizards is the Nickelback of gaming.

Well, the committee were the fans. The things they were excited about we constantly tore apart. Maybe this isn't the best design ever conceived, but don't act like they didn't try. They did try, repeatedly, and the fans told them no.

WotC may still create a workable psionics system down the road when this one bombs. You can settle if you like.

Max, this isn't going to bomb.

Even if, even if the majority of players despise the the psionic spells in this book, it will sell well and be well recieved. Why? Because it offers 27 new class options. It offers new familiars. It offers new spells. It offers a new system for character creation. It offers new magic items.

This book is going to be a hit, because of all the other stuff in it. And the psionic spells are good, so they will be liked. Not because they are psionics, but because they are good and interesting spells.

Maybe they will release a UA for their 8th or 9th attempt at a full Psion class after this, but we are getting psionic subclasses and spells, and people are going to like them. And WoTC is likely to put their energy to something new, and put down their five year burden.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Maybe you need to look at the factor all those groups have in common?

Uncalled for man. I to have seen groups fall apart, and a lot of times, the DM is responsible for the group disintegrating. I've made missteps as a DM that ruined a game once. I've seen other DMs struggle with things they thought were cool but wrecked everything.

Just because you have never seen it, doesn't mean it isn't a real thing that happens all the time.

 

[Delazar]

YES! Love it!

This is all I asked for, psionic spells. Now if they could also give me a new class, that uses psionic spells, with some psion-flavoured class features, I'll be a happy camper.

Though maybe that's for the Dark Sun book, same as they did with Eberron and the Artificer.