Psionics/Oriental Adventures in their own books, or in PHB*, future core books?

[Nifft]

Similar stereotypes - although, of course, not nearly as bad - were inflicted on the monk class too.

How about we put Psionics and Oriental stuff in one book, and start a new stereotype?

Cheers, -- N

 

[GreatLemur]

While the whole "core book series" concept sounds kinda cool, I don't really like the feeling that you're expected to buy each volume of of a given series as they come out in order to keep current. I much prefer the idea of themed books which add whole new aspects to the game, which are absolutely assumed to be inappropriate for some (even most) campaigns. So you can buy the psionics book or the incarnum book or the alchemy book or the spelljammer book, and get all the player and DM material to add these new angles to your game . . . but you don't ever feel like you're expected to get them.

The core series, however, seem like great places to introduce more mainstream content: The "Hey guys; there are swift and immediate actions, now!" stuff, the "Complete..." series stuff, the "...Compendium" series stuff, "101 interesting roleplay angles for PCs"-type articles, etc. I'd also like to see the DMG series supply a lot of Unearthed Arcana-style optional rules, because I freaking love that stuff.

EDIT: I'm not sure I want any kind of "Oriental Adventures" book, though. I really, really loved my OA book back in the 1e days, but I think that if we actually find ourselves needing whole new classes to create samurai and ninja, then the 4e PHB has really screwed up its Fighter and Rogue classes. "Samurai" ain't a class; it's a character concept. And a katana is just a bastard sword. I'm not really interested in the core books (or my own games) being "European" fantasy--whatever that is--so they ought to contain generic-enough content for people to be able to do Rokugan or whatever without much trouble.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

I voted in their own volume, but really, I wouldn't mind oriental stuff in the PHB II type books. I believe in a big tent kind of D&D, where multiple genres can coexist. Oriental adventure type stuff doesn't require its own mechanical rules. So really, there's no barrier to putting it in the main books, except perhaps a desire to segregate by genre. And that's a desire I don't particularly feel.

Agreed on this point. I'd like to see the core mechanics be flexible enough to cover all mechanics of any sort of campaign setting, and have an "Oriental Adventures" type of book in the same vein as any other campaign book (Eberron, FR)- ie, more descriptive than mechanics.

IE, no new classes, unless they really cover different ground than core classes (is a Ninja really different from a Rogue or Rogue/XXX combo character? A samurai different than a Fighter with a highbred background? Etc.).

No new monsters- again, unless they cover different ground; there aren't too many creatures that can't be covered with a rename and slight feat selection change, IMO. Why is an Ogre Mage a separate race? Why not just make it a highly intelligent Ogre with Sorcerer levels? The Go-Zu Oni could be a Minotaur with some Warlock levels; the Dokufu (3E OA) could have easily been a beefed up Aranea, etc.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Most game designers I've known or read about know far more than most people about the historical basis for such things. They also know that the cool fun stuff sells a game and interests the vast majority of players rather than any degree of historical accuracy. No-one wants to sit down for a history lesson at the game table; they want to cut through three-inch steel pipe with their katanas and still have it sharp enough to cut a silk string on the breeze. Lengthwise.

So enforced dual-wielding and unrealistic codes of honor are cool?

How about we put Psionics and Oriental stuff in one book, and start a new stereotype?

The Venom's Taste series called psionic schools "lamaseries" so in a way they are creating a stereotype. However, psionics never existed in real life, and there are stories of "psychic powers" from all over the place. Most of the stories are relatively new and don't really have a single cultural basis. Because psionics doesn't exist, it's hard to stereotype, but it can still be "typecast" (eg ectoplasm, crystals, sci-fi, or what have you).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm not sure I want any kind of "Oriental Adventures" book, though. I really, really loved my OA book back in the 1e days, but I think that if we actually find ourselves needing whole new classes to create samurai and ninja, then the 4e PHB has really screwed up its Fighter and Rogue classes. "Samurai" ain't a class; it's a character concept. And a katana is just a bastard sword. I'm not really interested in the core books (or my own games) being "European" fantasy--whatever that is--so they ought to contain generic-enough content for people to be able to do Rokugan or whatever without much trouble.

I agree in part and disagree in part.

While I agree that, ideally, Samurai, Ninja and similar class types SHOULD be just variants of the core classes (though which ones is definitely open for discussion- I could easily see Ninja as Rangers, for instance), there are enough different monsters & metaphysics to support an OA type sourcebook. If you look at history & legends, there simply isn't a Western counterpart to the shaolin warrior-priest archetype that became codified as the D&D Monk. Western Magic- Vancian mechanics or not- has different theoretical underpinnings from Eastern. Or African, or...

 

[Nifft]

I'd love to see Asian-themed whatevers done as Feats & Talent Trees for the (generic) existing core classes.

Samurai and Knight should each be about the same distance from Generic Fighting Man.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Starglim]

Not in the poll: I'd like to see psionics in PHB1, if there's time to do it justice, but I'm not especially worried if it appears in PHB2. I like Oriental content, however you define that, but it's not core and should be in a setting book.

 

[Ranger REG]

How about we put Psionics and Oriental stuff in one book, and start a new stereotype?

Nah, they should be separated. I don't want it perceived that psionic is Asian-only and vice versa.

Plus, if I didn't like the new incarnation of the psionic rules (as I dislike the current rules), I would be paying for $40 for a book that have $20 worth of useful material. (Prices used here are examples).

 

[TheSeer]

They need to be in separate volumes, so I can ignore them as I have since 1E.

And that is the reason I want them in the PHB2. Cause ever since 1E, the cry "But it's not core so we aren't using it!" (not that Olgar used that excuse. Don't know the guy, he coulda just said nah, he don't like it) has been used to no put Psionics in games. Putting it in a core book makes that argument go away. then the DM has to "man up" and just say they don't want to use it rather than hiding behind "Core/Not Core".

That being said, if the singular book quite obviously has "Core Product" emblazoned on it, go for that as it allows for more depth than being put with other things.

I have kept at our different DMs and sneaking in a psionic character here and there showing them that either the system wasn't as imbalanced as they thought, or the idea of a rampaging character who would be unchecked was more a player thing than directly related to the rules and our DMs have finally come around to the fact that for the most part, Psionic characters are no more powerful or game breaking than any other. Having it firmly embraced as a "Core" product just would make it a bit easier to do so.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I would like Psionics to be in the PHB2 or equivalent.

I would like Oriental Adventures to be a separate volume.

What he said!

Except... all backwards and stuff. I'm with mhacdebhandia, that the new D&D needs to display influences from heroic myths from all over the world-- and I'd like to keep psionics in a separate volume for campaigns that shouldn't feature it.

And, I have to say... I am really, really excited about the prospect of a martial-arts themed book.