Publishers, Piracy, and You

[LloydBrown]

Considering the books cost over 10 bucks each and he has 3 of them and the software. How his he turning a profit. I still can not see how this is priatecy if there is no profit.

It's illegal because there's a law against it. That law is not subject to your understanding or your interpretation or your logic. If you make a copy (paper or electronic) of work that you didn't create and distribute it without permission, you're breaking the law. That's illegal by definition.

And piracy does affect sales. Maybe not on a one-for-one ratio, but if there were virtually NO piracy and people just a little bit curious about something had to buy it, the impact would be much greater. That the crime is very effective in causing damage does not justify the crime itself.

 

[GMSkarka]

Bad comparison, because these are possible sales we are talking about. I highly doubt that the person that buys these three books and the six cds for $10 will buy your pdfs for a couple of bucks a pop. Your trying to pull a BSA here...

I've never bought that argument. Somebody is taking Phil's product, and in essence, producing it himself and selling it.

It's not a "possible sale" any more than saying if I stole a warehouse full of BMW parts and started making BMWs and selling them, I'm only causing BMW to lose "possible sales." It's a ridiculous argument.

 

[Henry]

Bad comparison, because these are possible sales we are talking about.

Nothing "possible" about them; Phil is referring not to sharing or "potential revenue" (whole other subject as we know), but the hard sales this guy is making.

On that note: one word of caution about this matter: I ask posters to be sure that any collaborate efforts don't mutate into "witch-hunts" involving someone's personal life, which a previous thread like this almost became before it was closed. I'm all in favor of people calling out instances of illegal sales when they see them, and at the same time I'd rather ENWorld not become legally liable as a place coordinating harrassment of individuals. Just use good judgment on where the line falls, is all I ask. Thanks.

 

[jmucchiello]

I think Phil also has this line "You may not distribute this PDF without permission of the author." so if someone were planning on seeing a Ronin Arts pdf (fools!) then I think it would be appropriate to let the author know that you are selling it and removing it from your computer.

I know I would like to know if a customer didn't want my product anymore and was planning to sell it.

Actually, I don't think that statement has any legal merit. A publisher cannot revoke or add restrictions to the buyer's right to resell a product. In the early 20th century book publishers would put similar statement on the copyright page of their books. "You may not resell this book without permission of So-and-so Publishing." Book publishers have always hated used book sales claiming they cost the publisher original sales. (And they do.) But the courts upheld the right of first sale saying that once the book is in the hands of the consumer, the publisher has no rights to tell him what he can or cannot do with that book. (I cannot find a good reference for the case though.) Can anyone with a law degree chime in on this? I'm pretty sure there is case law from like the 30s on this subject.

 

[Man-thing]

Interesting point. I never considered that before.

 

[Cergorach]

I've never bought that argument. Somebody is taking Phil's product, and in essence, producing it himself and selling it.

It's not a "possible sale" any more than saying if I stole a warehouse full of BMW parts and started making BMWs and selling them, I'm only causing BMW to lose "possible sales." It's a ridiculous argument.

So if this kid didn't sell these cds there would magically appear some cash on Phil's bank account? No sale of these cds would mean a sale of every pdf on that cd collection?

I think not!

A pdf in it self doesn't cost any money to produce, wether you sell 1 or a thousand doesn't mean any additional production costs for the pdf. BMW car parts cost money to produce every one part, a thousand cost a lot more tan a single part. That's why your comparison is less then accurate...

A pdf is esentially an intangible product and a car part is a tangible product, if you don't understand this, i'll be happy to explain it on a more appropriate level (complete with pictures and other todlers)....

This guy is making a hard sale (and posibly multiple sales), that doesn't mean Phil 'just' lost a sale. I'm not saying that it's allright (because it isn't), just that what's being said misrepresents the situation. I can understand publishers wanting to scare folks as much as possible, getting upset and overstating the situation, but that doesn't exuse inaccuracy in statements.

 

[philreed]

I e-mailed him and gave him the option of paying me $4 for each Campaign Planner sold or stop selling my PDF now. I estimated that he has already sold 100 Campaign Planners and I now await my $400.

 

[Cergorach]

*wonders what phil is on*

You know, drugs are bad for you...

;-)

 

[GMSkarka]

A pdf in it self doesn't cost any money to produce

The fact that you think that is....well, I suppose it's part of the problem.

They DO cost money to produce. Writers, artists, editors and graphic designers need to be paid, you know.

 

[Cergorach]

The fact that you think that is....well, I suppose it's part of the problem.

They DO cost money to produce. Writers, artists, editors and graphic designers need to be paid, you know.

Are you on the same stuf that phil is on, or is this your normal state of mind? :-(

A 'pdf' in itself doesn't cost anything to produce, the content on the other hand does cost money to produce.

Just like a BMW car part costs money to design, but the 'medium' also costs money to produce. A 'pdf' is the medium and doesn't cost anything to produce. Understand the difference? Or should i roll out the pictures? ;-)

You don't copyright the medium, just the content of a 'book', it can be a pdf, a plain paper book, it can even be chisseld in a stone tablet. The difference between the pdf and the plain paper book is that the first medium doesn't cost anything to (mass) produce, the second medium does.

They difference is the medium, not the content.