Publishers, Piracy, and You

[DaveMage]

He must have been real concerned with the emails, because he posted it again:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44112&item=5212096631&rd=1

Amazing.

*shakes head*

 

[Tharian]

Oh, here's a new question. How many publishers would still consider it piracy if the auction had only included PDF versions of the three physical books being sold?

DISCLAIMER: I am not a publisher, author or any other type involved in the creation and/or distribution of materials discussed in those ebay auctions.

That being said, my thought on the sale of books including a PDF version of those books is this: I believe it to be reasonable to have a copy of the product for use in an online fashion provided that the material will not be distributed in any manner to others. Basically put, my thought on this question resembles my thought about music CDs. I paid for the product and I intend to put it to use in the manner I best see fit. If that means I make an archive version in case the original becomes damaged, then that is fair use.

However, there is a caveat to what I've just said. If a particular book is also available in an enhanced PDF version (bookmarks, working hyperlinks, etc) that would not be normally available from a scanned in book and that enhanced PDF is what is being distributed on the CD, then that would be copyright violation unless that PDF was also purchased. Since both the book and the enhanced PDF could potentially be two separate sources of income for the author/publisher, then both should be purchased legitimately.

So back to your question: Would I still consider it piracy if the only PDF files included in that auction were of the same hardcopy materials being sold? No, I would not if they were basic PDF files.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

E-Bay just plain does not much care. Having a low number of auctions on E-Bay can mean that an old pirate has started up a new account (which I am pretty sure of in this case - I have seen identical items show up at auctions mentioned on this forum and others before).

Selling PDFs does not mean that you no longer have the files - and that is where the profit comes from. As he has created a new auction with the same items it is obvious that he does indeed know that he is a crook. I hope that he gets nailed to the church door.

The Auld Grump - number of pirated files on my computer = 0, not even illegal MP3s.

 

[HinterWelt]

I have no problem with someone doing that with my PDFs. Let me be clear, though. IF they delete the files AND IF they only sell a number of copies equal to the number of copies purchased.

So far each time my PDFs have been on eBay it's been obvious that they're illegal copies.

Thanks for the candor Phil. This is my thought on the subject as well. To be clear, I also have very little faith that the seller would limit themselves to one sale (or the number they had bought originally).

To bring some good out of it though, have you ever thought of doing something similar but legal? For instance, pair with a print publisher and sell a CD containing your titles? I could see it as a very easy value add. It would not have to be all your titles (you have an impressive catalog) but a subset compatible with the book it is being bundled with. Little risk to you and the ability to tap a wider market for your PDFs.

I have talked with some retailers and they liked the idea.

Anyway, just an idea.

Bill

 

[RedShirtNo5]

Take a look at those six CDs. They are marked with the D&D logo. Has WotC ever distributed marked CDs?

-RedShirt

 

[D_Sinclair]

Oh, a two-for-one answer!

First, Hinterwelt, CD media products have traditionally done very poorly in the physical product market. There was a company about 10 years ago that did a few great CD products, the equivalent of about 1000 pages worth of book per CD in a variety of formats, and they sold it for $17.99. I saw it listed constantly in catalogs and magazines, but the owner of the local game shop couldn't even find a distributor that carried them. Of course, it may have simply been too soon for a CD-based product way back in 1995.

WotC did the Dragon Magazine archive. You'd think that would sell well, considering it was 250 issues of Dragon plus every issue of its predecessor for only $60, right? It ended up being one of their poorest sellers, selling even less than that silver anniversary box set they had, which was at the same price point. However, I think the poor sales were the fault of marketing decisions, rather than the media. Better to sell 6 CDs at $12 each, rather than a set of 6 for $60.

Lastly, ARP has been in business since 1991 and selling RPGs since 1998. In that timeframe, the company has sold 4,938 books, over 15,000 PDFs, and 2 copies of various game lines collected on CD.

And to answer RedShirtNo5, yes, WotC has sold CDs bearing their trademarks. They did the aforementioned Dragon magazine archive, as well as a software toolset for 2nd edition. On top of that, there were maybe 40 or 50 licensed D&D and AD&D games on various computer and console platforms as well. But those were by licensed third parties.

 

[philreed]

Take a look at those six CDs. They are marked with the D&D logo. Has WotC ever distributed marked CDs?

In my eyes those CDs just prove the guys knows what he's doing is illegal and is trying to make his auction look as good as possible.

I'm e-mailing him now.

 

[philreed]

The way you all are making him sound like the epotime of evil makes me wish more people did this. It is nothing but a few cds of programs. There is no harm in it for anyone except lawyers.

He is selling my PDFs. He is taking money for me. My PDF sales are my primary source of income. How would you feel if someone dipped into your bank account every few days and swiped $5, $10, or $20?

 

[D_Sinclair]

He is selling my PDFs. He is taking money for me. My PDF sales are my primary source of income. How would you feel if someone dipped into your bank account every few days and swiped $5, $10, or $20?

Let me toss out something that might help put things into better perspective for those who don't realize how small the PDF market still is at this point.

First, the average PDF publisher is a one-man show or a small gaming group effort, with everyone maintaining day jobs. That means a slow development cycle for most products and only a handful of releases each year. And most of those few releases don't even sell 100 units in their first year of availability.

So when a publisher loses just a few sales due to something like those auctions, the lost revenue often represents a bigger percentage of the overall annual operating revenues than the losses suffered by the big recording labels when they claim they lose 250,000 sales to piracy.

In other words, the current dollar value of the entire PDF market is still so small that the bottom 80% of the vendors on RPGnow would probably make more money working part time at McDonald's than they're making writing RPGs at the moment, so while their loses may look like chump change to many consumers, they're an awefully big deal to the publishing company. If you want the publishers to start thinking of those losses as chump change too, then you'll just have to buy more PDFs. Lots more PDFs. Truckloads of PDFs. Induce an acute bout of consumeritis and buy, buy, buy!

 

[Cergorach]

And here were we all thinking that pdf publishers were all big time millionairs that are to cheap to give their pdfs away for free...

He is selling my PDFs. He is taking money for me. My PDF sales are my primary source of income. How would you feel if someone dipped into your bank account every few days and swiped $5, $10, or $20?

Bad comparison, because these are possible sales we are talking about. I highly doubt that the person that buys these three books and the six cds for $10 will buy your pdfs for a couple of bucks a pop. Your trying to pull a BSA here...

It's more like someone playing russian roulette with your income, they might negatively affect your income, they might not. The problem is you never know for sure, but you keep having this unpleasant feeling that someone is playing with something that isn't his to play with (but is yours).

ps. pulling a BSA is saying that every pirated copy of program, piece of music, or movie is lost revenue. Even if the software found on someones harddrive is more then (s)he makes in 5 years or life time...