Publishing Modules

[talmar]

Well at least one company is making a go of selling primarily modules, Necromancer Games.

With the exception of Tome of Horrors and the upcoming Book of Taverns and Grimtooth's, they are pretty much cranking out modules. They also have a bunch (?? 20+ ??) more in the pipeline that have been delayed because of work on the Judges Guild Wilderlands/CSIO projects.

Most of these are also in the 64+ page range.

Maybe Orcus could stop by and give some input on this thread.

Indeed, Necromancer Games is really the only d20 publisher I buy on what could be called a regular basis.

They indeed have put a spin on simple adventurer modules that make them desireable. They publish mini settings. Many "adventures" in a very detailed region that may have an underlying thread tying them together in different ways.

I have a whole book case of core books and rules and suppliments etc.

The book of Taverns is another good example. A whole book of adventures that take place in the Tavern setting.

I think Adventure Modules done the right way can do well enough to warrent their publishing.

 

[Arnwyn]

I agree the companies you mentioned have solid adventures, may I suggest Mystic Eye Games and Thunderhead Games line adventures as well
Innovative and fun, we have a few as well as a slew of other stuff.

Actually, I do have a few MEG adventures - I'm particularly pleased with the Foul Locales series. While I don't like the computer-generated maps so much, at least they are gridded and do look quite good compared to other computer generated maps out there.

tmaaas: what you list is exactly what I like as well.

Thorin: I absolutely agree - the "premium book for a premium price" seems like a good idea. I'd buy in an instant if it includes "lots of stuff that no GM in his right mind could ever do on his own for a game session" - that's why I buy adventures.

 

[Thomasson]

What's more, the industry needs this to happen. Players can't use 87 gagillion rulebooks if they don't have any adventures to use them with.

Ahem. Two words: DUNGEON Magazine. We're still going strong, printing excellent, scalable, unique adventures for characters of all levels.

In the last several issues, since around #92 or so, we've also made an effort to print longer, meatier adventures. Our readership asked repeatedly for modules like that, and we noticed the glut of adventures being produced. Figuring that would peak in a few months, we wanted to already have a system in place where DMs could find quality, longer adventures once other companies stopped producing them.

Next issue, we're breaking out even more. "Life's Bazaar," the module that will launch our new Adventure Path, by Christopher Perkins, ran a little long. I asked for 25,000 words, he wrote 45,000. So we got permission from our publisher to add some pages to the issue, pulled a bunch of stuff into a big Web enhancement, and still came out of it with a 50-page module. There aren't a lot of adventures being printed now, and we're doing what we can to full it.

I guess my (long-winded) point is just that adventures are still out there--at least four every two months.

 

[Deamoclese]

I gotta agree with Chris... you guys definately have been publishing much meatier (and better) adventures lately (although I've always enjoyed most of them).

For me, Dungeon magazine is a godsend and the material is frequently better than stuff I get in modules I purchase (and I buy a damn lot heh -- lot easier to just modify other people's work, especially when you play several times a week and need lots of material).

Subsequently, I am incredibly fascinated by this Dire Kobold online publication too.. I will definately be looking into it for additional material.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Ahem. Two words: DUNGEON Magazine. We're still going strong, printing excellent, scalable, unique adventures for characters of all levels.

Didn't I just make that point a few posts back? Seriously though, I completely agree with Chris. Dungeon also has a very classy layout now too. Its worth every penny you pay to subscribe (even if they haven't published me yet [grumbles and wanders away dejectedly]).

 

[Sir Edgar]

I'm sure some of the more widely distributed best sellers can push out 10,000 copies if they were lucky. But I agree that many are selling below 1,000 copies. I would guess that you have to break 2,000-3,000 copies at least to break even for a mid-sized d20 company. Most people are confused about d20's relationship to D&D and it doesn't help when many retailers display WoTC adventures face forward while the d20 ones are stacked sideways. A mediocre WoTC adventure will outsell a good d20 one by x10, I imagine. I'm just wondering if it's even possible for a new d20 company (that's not Malhavoc or Necromancer) to sell 10,000+ copies on a first run now.

Can anyone confirm or deny this? I have no idea what a d20 "bestseller" would sell. What are the experiences of some of the mid-size d20 companies out there?

Also, I'm curious to know how many of the people who own these companies keep their day jobs. Do a lot of people make $50,000+ by working as a full-time publisher?

 

[Darrin Drader]

Monte recently said that the Book of Eldritch Might has now sold over 13,000 copies in print and PDF. Based on the research I've done, that is much, much more than you can expect the average D20 product to sell.

I can't speak for everyone in the industry, but I've heard numbers like 1,500 copies to 3,000 copies being thrown around as fairly common and anything above that being pretty good. I can't get into the production costs because there really are too many variables involved, but I would imagine that other than the extremely successful companies (Malhavoc Press) and the high volume companies (Mongoose Publishing), most people that run a company producing D20 material probably also have day jobs so that they can pay the bills.

 

[Sir Edgar]

Those are pretty disappointing numbers considering the Player's Handbook sold like a million copies. I wonder how much getting the D&D label has helped Kenzer Co. What if this means we'll never see big-hit adventures like in 80's ever again? That would be unfortunate because they're almost like shared experiences for the many people who played them. After all, most people have at least heard of, if not played the GDQ or Slavers series. I don't think anyone will be talking about any adventures like that considering WoTC doesn't focus any significant attention on them and d20 companies just don't get as much attention by casual gamers (who probably comprise the majority of the population of D&D players). Anyone have numbers for the bestsellers during the 80's? I wonder how many copies of the Temple of Elemental Evil or Queen of the Demonweb Pits were sold.

 

[Brudewollen]

I couldn't guess on numbers, but considering how many can easily be found on Ebay and flea markets, etc., those old modules like GDQ, Hommlet, TOEE, Tomb of Horrors, etc. must have sold quite a lot. D&D was big business back then too. I remember that for a time the D&D books routinely showed up on the NYTimes bestseller lists (don't remember if it was on the fiction or non-fiction list...). I remember Oriental Adventures was at or near the very top when it came out, imagine how many they sold of the PHB or the DMG! The only reason that didn't happen with 3rd Edition was because the NYTimes long ago changed how they rate this stuff. I don't think game rule books are eligible anymore. That being said, there was far less material out there because it was all coming from TSR, well mostly, and few if any of the other games were nearly so popular.

The glut of course drives average sales down, as does the perception that the quality might not be as high. Only a few publishers other then Wizards have distinguished themselves above the norm and that's in part because they often had some major designers on their teams from day 1 (Green Ronin, Malhavoc...).

One way to get your own company going, really, is to design for other companies and build a name, then venture out on your own, bringing your personal touch and style to the entire line your company produces. One thing my partner and I have discussed is trying that route before publishing under our own banner - we'll see what happens when the time comes.

 

[Orcus]

I've heard from others that 1500 to 3000 is the normal range on the standard adventure. When I say standard, I mean 48 to 96 page adventures. There isnt much market for 32 pagers anymore, it doesnt seem. It is too hard to compete with Dungeon Magazine in that regard. With our distribution, we are always at the high end of the above range (or more). 5000 copies is certainly a big success. Over 5000 copies is a smash hit for anything but the high profile hardback.

Tales of selling 10000+ copies are from the early days of d20 and just dont happen any more (except for perhaps a Tome of Horrors or Necropolis, or other real high profile hardback). I would presume a Freeport hardback would also come close to or exceed those numbers. But that is an established product line with an established history of good products behind it.

For a new publisher, IMHO, you should plan to sell 1500 to 3000 (max) copies of a standard adventure.

As for making 50,000 a year, I wouldnt bet on that, unless you change your name to Monte Cook. Necro is very successful, and there is now way I would quit my day job.

Hope that helps.

Clark