Punching and Touch Attack

[Lily Inverse]

Sooo....it comes down to one question. . .

What are SPIKED gauntlets? Are they an extension of unarmed strikes, or are they a weapon in their own right? The former, and they work with spells. The latter, and you can't use the spikes to deliver the touch attack. Personally, I could go either way on that.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

The PH describes gauntlets as extensions of your unarmed strike that deal normal damage instead of subdual damage. You are still considered unarmed when you use an unarmed strike with them. These should be able to make unarmed strikes and deliver touch spells if you hit your target's normal AC. Spiked gauntlets are considered weapons. You attack as if you are armed, not provoking an AoO, and you cannot deliver a touch spell with a regular melee attack. You can, however, deliver a touch spell while wearing them if you make a melee touch attack against your opponent.

This is why the gauntlet is listed with unarmed strikes and the spiked gauntlet is listed with tiny simple melee weapons.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Unless you're hasted or you quicken the spell, good luck pulling all that off in one round.

No problem at all, actually. PH, page 125, Touch Spells in Combat.

 

[kreynolds]

No problem at all, actually. PH, page 125, Touch Spells in Combat.

I was under the assumption he was delivering the spell via an gauntlet attack (the main topic of this thread, ironically enough), which is a standard action.

EDIT: Whoops. I meant "gauntlet", not "unarmed". Doh!

 

[Dr. Zoom]

That was his scenario 2. Scenario 1 was cast, move and touch. He can still make a melee touch attack with the gauntlet, but not with the spiked gauntlet.

You are correct, though, in that he cannot cast, move, and make an unarmed strike to deliver the spell all in one round.

 

[Ferret]

The glancing blow thing is easy to answer - if it truly was a glancing blow it would have hit for some damage - keeping in mind the abstract nature of hit points.

A glancing blow can be a hit that deals damage. It can also be truly a glancing blow that doesn't do anything.

D&D's entire _combat system_ is abstract, and that includes armour adding to your AC. If full plate's AC +8 meant that everyone genuinely missed you, it would be like some sort of mystical force field that prevented blows from physically connecting. This is clearly absurd. AC incorporates an element of physical deflection, so that attacks bounce off your armour or are absorbed by its thickness or hardness. Now you could argue that the best way to represent this is via DR, but we've had that argument six million times + 1 already. For now, armour adds to your AC instead of DR, and we're stuck with it.

Therefore, I don't have any real problem with attacks that fail to deal damage still managing to touch the target. This seems a lot more reasonable than what's in the PHB or the FAQ, and doesn't need so much handwaving to justify it (or at least any more handwaving than the combat system as a whole needs).

I would say "You should have read hongs sig first" but I didn't beacuse of 2 things:

1. Hong would have put what I said into his Sig, thus causing it to be repetative, and boring.
2. His current sig contains none the psychicly nutrious information it normally does, at the moment. [/list=1]

 

[Bobbystopholes]

Dr. Zoom found the killer, at least in my mind. The spiked gauntlet is not considered an unarmed strike, but a tiny weapon. Can't deliver a spell via a weapon, so I am convinced that without having a monk level or taking Improved Unarmed Strike, you can't punch and deliver the attack.

I hate the thought of 1d3 damage (I know 1d4 isn't much better) so I'll just use the touch attack.

Thanks!

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Right, with a spiked gauntlet. Note that a monk or someone with the IUS feat cannot deliver a touch spell with a normal melee attack with a spiked gauntlet, either.

Also, you can deliver the touch spell with an unarmed strike with a normal gauntlet. Note that it is not a tiny weapon, but listed under the Unarmed heading. So your cleric can shed the spiked gauntlet, put on his normal gauntlets, punch someone with them and deliver a touch spell. Just not all in the same round, as Kreynolds has pointed out.

 

[Bobbystopholes]

Thanks Zoom. I got all of that out of the posts.

This character is for a tournament at a local Gaming Shop. It is kind of min/maxed (at least in my groups head) so the four of us got the typical group of Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard together.

I am the Cleric but have to be a front-liner. Luckily I rolled 16, 15, 15, 15, 13, 11 so I can make a good one. We are beginning at 9th level starting with 36000gp. I would have taken a level of Monk (which I might at 10th) but I want the 5th level spells. He's a Cleric of Osiris 7/Divine Disciple 2 with Death, Retribution, and Plant as domains. Calls himself the "Tooth of Am-mit" and prepares mainly slay livings and inflict spells (handfire if he gets low on spells . I was just trying to suck out an extra 1d4+2. I'll accept that it ain't that easy... until 10th level!

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Wow, they let you roll for your ability scores?

Looks like a cool cleric. I am sure you will have alot of fun slaying the foes of Osiris.