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Punisher 2

Just move Frank to New York and I'll be happy. Tampa, Florida? Gimme a break.

Acid_crash said:
Had they been given 50 million and double the time, I am sure it would have been a lot better.

I'll agree about the time factor, but do you really think having "only" 27 million prevents a director from making a top-notch movie? Another 23 mil would make the movie better?
 
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Villano said:
I completely agree. It kind of reminds me of Grant Morrison explaining how Batman could beat every single one of the JLA.

Well a noted Non-Batman fan, Mark Waid, wrote probably the definitive Batman story in regard to him being able to take down the JLA. (Tower of Bable: JLA 43-46)
 

Brother Shatterstone said:
Well a noted Non-Batman fan, Mark Waid, wrote probably the definitive Batman story in regard to him being able to take down the JLA. (Tower of Bable: JLA 43-46)

And as comments on the letters page a few months later would show, a lot of folks really hated that story. Of course if you had a bunch of nanotechnology weapons that can penetrate everyone's defenses and do anything ranging from immolating the Martian Manhunter to inducing mental illusions in Wonder Woman's brain you could beat the JLA. Oddly, in his own comic Batman doesn't seem to make much use of these nanites while fighting the likes of the Joker and Penguin.
 

Felon said:
And as comments on the letters page a few months later would show, a lot of folks really hated that story.

Most people only write to complain...

Oh for the record:
Issue 48: 3 Positives and 1 middle of the road. (though it seems to be positive to me)
Issue 49: 1 positive, one middle of the road, 1 negative. (and the middle of the road letter and the negative one where based upon: [
batman "pending" removal from the team
])
Issue 50: all positive (3 for the record)
Issue 51: 2 positives, 1 middle of the road. (He was worried about [
Batman's removal of the team and how it would be come "Superman in his amazing friends."
])

and issue 52 has the letters from the first part of "Queen of Fable."

So that would be: 9 positive votes, 3 Middle of the road votes, and lastly 1 negative vote that in retrospect is probably not so bad.

Brother Shatterstone said:
Most people only write to complain...

I guess I’m wrong… People who wrote loved the story. :D

Felon said:
Oddly, in his own comic Batman doesn't seem to make much use of these nanites while fighting the likes of the Joker and Penguin.

I would imagine that's cause he doesn't need them. :cool:
 

Brother Shatterstone said:
Most people only write to complain...
True.

Oh for the record: [/quote]
Good lord, this is the scariest thing I've read all week. Tell me the comics were just laying around, right? You were just re-reading them, right? Lie if you have to. :cool:

Tell you what, when I get the free time I'll get my issues and we can nitpick over what qualifies as negative or positive. ;)

I would imagine that's cause he doesn't need them. :cool:

Are you kidding? He could've rebuilt Gotham after the quake in a week with access to that kind of super-technology. Directing hordes of nanites, he could repel invasions of armies of martians and assault Apokalips, all without ever leaving the comfort of the batcave. :D
 

Felon said:
Good lord, this is the scariest thing I've read all week. Tell me the comics were just laying around, right? You were just re-reading them, right? Lie if you have to. :cool:

Wish I could... I'm a comic book collector first and foremost... So 8 feet from me over my right shoulder, bottom row of small boxes, secound box in on the left... 43 issues in. ;) :heh:

Felon said:
Tell you what, when I get the free time I'll get my issues and we can nitpick over what qualifies as negative or positive. ;)

Sounds fair enough. :D

Felon said:
Are you kidding? He could've rebuilt Gotham after the quake in a week with access to that kind of super-technology. Directing hordes of nanites, he could repel invasions of armies of martians and assault Apokalips, all without ever leaving the comfort of the batcave. :D

First and formost I think you hit upon a major issue of his... He likes to leave the Batcave. :)

As for rebuilding Gotham so quickly, it was a declared a No Man’s Land, and the federal government wasn’t allowing anyone in or out, he probably could have but it would have lead to question he didn’t want to answer or even seen asked.

I do agree though... It was a pure Plot Device... How long would it have taken the normal members of the JLA to rebuild Gotham? Week or two tops?
 

IIRC, there was an issue dealing with why the JLA didn;t do precisely that, but I didn't read it. Anyone care to pull up the comic?

Anyone? Anyone?

Ferris?
 


I like the Punisher but I don't think a lot of people get the character as he started out in the 80's. He has been changed so many times since that he has a lost of the edge he once had.

My vision of the Punisher has always been of a ruthless and unstoppable vigilante.

He hunts down and kills criminals. He doesn't announce his presence, or try to instill fear in the mooks ala Batman. He just kills them in the most efficient and covert way as possible so as to not attract attention himself. He then moves on the next group of thugs, and then the next. He doesn't care about glory, or press, or making a statement. He is more like a force of nature than a man. Part of what made the Punisher an interesting character for me was his inhumanity. His cold brutality and ruthless sense of justice.

Both the original Punisher and the new Punisher films both missed the mark. They fell into the cliched action movie formula. Man on Fire's Denzel Washington or the main character in Tom Clancy's Without Remorse were much closer to who the Punisher really is my mind. The Punisher doesn't live in an apartment complex and make friends with the locals. He doesn't stick Daredevil in a moral dilemma.

He doesn't care about Daredevil, or what he thinks. Daredevil is not a criminal so he does not deserve death in the Punisher's worldview, so the Punisher would not kill him. Merely knock him out to get him out of the way, then go snipe his target and then leave.

He wouldn't waste his time trying to frame Howard Saint's family or ruin his life. The real Punisher doesn't care about such things. Saint is a dangerous crime lord. Therefore, he dies and so does anything or anyone that gets in Castle's way. Brutally and efficiently. That's all there is to it.

He would never harm an innocent but nor does he go out of his way to help them. He helps people if the opportunity presents itself, and it won't take him from his path. But otherwise he is not about saving people. He is more focused on destroying evil than in supporting good. He is the ultimate anti-hero.

If they made a real movie about the real Punisher it would be great film. A gritty psychological drama about how a loving family man who loses his family to criminals also loses his humanity in the process. About how his zeal and desire to receive a justice denied him by an inefficient and ineffective legal system turns him into an unstoppable inhuman killer bent on punishing the guilty for their crimes.
 

Dragonblade said:
I like the Punisher but I don't think a lot of people get the character as he started out in the 80's. He has been changed so many times since that he has a lost of the edge he once had.

Well, as he started out, he was a member of Spider-Man's rogue gallery--a nutjob menace that thought all criminals deserved death, including jaywalkers and shoplifters. Then he got a major facelift via a convenient explanation involving a brainwashing while in prison.

To be honest, I don't think the Frank Castle of the 80's series is very accessable to moviegoers. It's tough to get audiences caring about a joyless character with no personality and no associates to act as foils or exposition devices. And Castle's no-frills ultra-efficient methods of killing criminals would constantly leave folks wondering why he doesn't just do all of his killing with a sniper rifle or remotely-detonated bombs, which would make for a dull, tensionless movie.

I really wonder how the sequel's going to pan out. When Hollywood creative teams (producers, writers, and directors) sit around trying to agree on a script, they really have a tough time getting away from the idea that the do-gooder in question--be it a cop, superhero, or vigilante--has to have something personal at stake. This is why Joker winds up being the guy who killed Batman's parents, and why the Kingpin is the guy who killed Daredevil's father, and so forth. They really have trouble with the notion of someone pursuing a criminal as just part of a broad commitment to stopping wrongdoers, so they feel obliged to introduce some kind of intimate connection to the bad guy. So, what are they going to do in P2 to get Castle pissed off again? Have Bumpo appear just long enough to get bumped off? Give Frank a dog and then blow it up?
 

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