Purified Explosive Fireball

[Patlin]

The purify spell feat prevents good aligned creatures from being damaged by a spell. It apparently doesn't alter the spells ability to effect good aligned creatures in other ways.

Explosive spell pushes those who miss their reflex save out of the spells area of effect. In so doing, it also damages them based on how far they are pushed and whether they strike an obstacle.

If a good creature is in the area of effect of a purified explosive fireball, it would seem they would still be in danger of being pushed out of the area of effect if they miss their save, since that is a non-damaging effect of the spell. Would they take damage from the movement, or would that be negated by purify spell?

(I'd imagine that a purified empowered spell would still do zero damage to a good creature in its area, so I'm not satisfied that the metamagic feats are completely seperate. It's just that the damage due to explosive spell seems somewhat different from normal spell damage...)

 

[andargor]

Would a purified meteor swarm with the spheres aimed directly at a good character do damage?

Would the mud falling on a good character from a purified transmute rock to mud do damage?

Good question. My feeling is that the purified meteor swarm would do no damage, since it's direct spell damage. On the other side, the purified transmute rock to mud is not doing direct damage, so a good character would be affected.

The Explosive spell seems to be somewhere in the middle...

Andargor

 

[TheGogmagog]

(I'd imagine that a purified empowered spell would still do zero damage to a good creature in its area, so I'm not satisfied that the metamagic feats are completely seperate. It's just that the damage due to explosive spell seems somewhat different from normal spell damage...)

Good point, they are supposed to be handled separatly each applied to the base spell. If I recall, a purified spell not only does no damage to good creatures, it does a higher die damage to evil creatures. So neutral would take 10d6, evil would take 10d8.

So the purified empowered fireball would still do .5x of 10d6 (or 5d6) damage to good aligned creatures, and 10d8 + 5d6 to evil. A maximized purified fireball would still do 60 minus 10d6 damage to good creatures but 60 + 10d2 damage to evil creatures. Definitly a dice rolling mathmatical nightmare, certainly worth house ruling the effects to apply to all.

That is how the maximized empowered fireball works 60 + .5x10d6. Note that 10d6 x .5 will give a more condensed bell curve closer to the average than 5d6 will, but it's probably not worth the extra math.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Would the mud falling on a good character from a purified transmute rock to mud do damage?

Well the transmute spell the target is the mud not the character, so it only affects evil (I think it would affect neutral also) rock. Once the rock is turned to mud it's free to smother anyone it likes.

Purified meteor swarm would do no damage... against logic. Spells with secondary effects like ice storm or grease, I think the non-damage effects still affect good targets.

Explosive spell is also an effect above and beyond the base spell so it would affect good creatures also.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Good point, they are supposed to be handled separatly each applied to the base spell.

That is not a rule found anywhere in the game.

There is a rule that Empower and Maximize, specifically, act in such a fashion.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Good point, they are supposed to be handled separatly each applied to the base spell. If I recall, a purified spell not only does no damage to good creatures, it does a higher die damage to evil creatures. So neutral would take 10d6, evil would take 10d8.

It's a higher die of damage to evil outsiders I think, not all evil creatures. I think you had a typo in your second paragraph, too, but it's not that important.

 

[Patlin]

It's a higher die of damage to evil outsiders I think, not all evil creatures.

Have it in front of me now, and can confirm the above quote. Evil Outsiders take more damage, evil creatures generally take normal damage, neutral creatures take half, and good creatures take none.

 

[Dross]

That is not a rule found anywhere in the game.

There is a rule that Empower and Maximize, specifically, act in such a fashion.

And going by this i guess the assumption would be that the metamagic feats "act all at once" unless otherwise stated like the above example.

I'd rule that the damage from being pushed out from the purified explosive fireball is not from direct damage because:
a) It relies on what objects are in the environment, not on what the subject is or abilities it has (feats, abilities, alignment).
b) It removes the seemingly ludicrous situation that one good aligned creature is not moved because it would be pushed into a wall but another good aligned creature would be moved down a corridoor.

although by a strict reading of the rule, maybe 'b' would occur

 

[Patlin]

a) It relies on what objects are in the environment, not on what the subject is or abilities it has (feats, abilities, alignment).
b) It removes the seemingly ludicrous situation that one good aligned creature is not moved because it would be pushed into a wall but another good aligned creature would be moved down a corridoor.

Good points, but a couple of things to consider:

1) "Removing" the environment -- An explosive sun burst used in an aerial dog fight would still do 8d6 "pushing" damage even if the target was pushed through nothing but air.
2) Good targets would defintely be moved, IMO. The movement itself is not he same as damage. The only question is whether the movement would cause damage. Would it be reasonable to rule that the good creature is pushed up to the obstruction but not violently into it?

I guess I'd feel better going with my gut on this if the whole concept of good creatures not being burned by purified flames made any sense to me in the first place.