Purple Dragon Knight Retooled as Banneret in D&D's Heroes of Faerun Book

The class received poor marks during playtesting.
purple dragon knight.jpg


The much-maligned Purple Dragon Knight Fighter subclass is being retooled towards its original support origins in the upcoming Heroes of Faerun book. Coming out of GenCon, an image of a premade character sheet of a Banneret is making its way around the Internet. The classic support-based Fighter subclass appears to have replaced the Purple Dragon Knight subclass, which received a ton of criticism for not resembling the Purple Dragon Knight's traditional lore.

The Banneret's abilities includes a Level 3 "Knightly Envoy" ability that allows it to cast Comprehend Language as a ritual and gain proficiency in either Intimidation, Insight, Performance, or Persuasion (this appears unchanged from the Purple Dragon Knight UA), plus a Group Recovery ability that allows those within 30 feet of the Banneret to regain 1d4 Hit Points plus the Banneret's Fighter Level when the Banneret uses its Second Wind ability. Scrapped is the Purple Dragon companion that the UA version of the subclass had, which grew in power as the Purple Dragon Knight leveled up.

The Banneret was the generic name for the Purple Dragon Knight in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. The Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight was originally more of a support class that could provide the benefits of its abilities to its allies instead of or in addition to benefitting from them directly. For instance, a Banneret's Action Surge could be used to allow a nearby ally to make an attack, and Indomitable could allow an ally to reroll a failed saving throw in addition to the Banneret.

 

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Christian Hoffer

Christian Hoffer


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It is my theory that no one actually likes the Purple Dragon Knight lore. They’re just a generic order of chivalric knights that killed a dragon once. It is so bog-standard that I cannot imagine someone reading it and thinking it’s interesting. People just know the lore. They’re familiar with it. “WotC doesn’t respect the lore (and by consequence older fans)” has become a shibboleth in online discussion. “WotC changed this, now it sucks” isn’t an argument. It’s barely a statement. People don’t dislike the lore change because it sucks, they dislike the lore change because it changed. “They changed it so it sucks now” is a statement grognards make to signal to their peers that they’re unhappy with the direction D&D is taking. And WotC changing or updating a piece of lore just gives the grognards another phrase to bludgeon them with.

That is unless there’s some amazing Forgotten Realm novel out there that everyone else has read that somehow makes PDKs interesting, where the fact that they don’t ride dragons is key to their identity.
 

This is an incredibly tenuous analogy. Anyway, my point is not “you dislike this particular change, therefore you’re afraid of any change.” My point is, “Purple Dragon Knights have never ridden purple dragons before” is a bad reason for them not to start doing so, and acting like them starting to do so is a betrayal of the lore is weird, because the lore is still there, like it has always been. If you think it’s a dumb change, just say you think it’s a dumb change. You don’t have to justify your opinion by pointing at the lore and saying “it’s different therefore it’s objectively bad.”

Yeah, it's not a great analogy. :)

Judging something based on how dumb or awesome its archetype might be is pretty shallow analysis. I could say it's (objectively?) awesome to ride dragons. It's also awesome to lead an army of allies into a desperate combat and inspire them to fight on in the face of overwhelming odds. When two potentially awesome things are competing for the same space, how do we evaluate which one should go in that space? One important dimension is the context it's coming into - which includes the lore that came before. It's part of what WotC needs to consider when designing for D&D (as, I think, the feedback for this subclass showed WotC). It is not an authority that must be slavishly obeyed, but it is part of the environment the design exists in. A pretty important part.

So, one valid reason that PDK's shouldn't ride purple dragons is because they haven't done it before. There are also other reasons ("it sounds like an idea cooked up by a marketer instead of a human being" is one of mine). There are also reasons why they should ride purple dragons, probably ("It's awesome to ride dragons" might be at the top of that list for me).

Well, as @Remathilis very eloquently put it, we didn’t get a UA on the lore of Cormyr’s knighthood. The purple dragon knights becoming an order of dragon riders is a done deal. What WotC asked was do we like this subclass. I liked the subclass. But lore defenders rated it poorly because they didn’t like the lore change, which wasn’t what was being asked, and now we’re getting a crappy subclass and the lore is still changing in the way the lore defenders dislike.

The consistent and public rejection of that change in all the ways we can still matters. At the very least, it won't come as a surprise to WotC when no one plays with their lore, and if they want to continue to be good stewards of the game, maybe they'll consider future changes in light of this. If they're keeping the lore anyway, maybe it's more appropriate to think of these releases and surveys as marketing material rather than legitimate paths for impactful feedback.

It's still a net good that we're getting another shot at a support-oriented Fighter. That's an important and under-served archetype in 5e. And if they're keeping the lore, we haven't even really lost the other archetype - a PDK PC can still find and ride an amethyst dragon by playing the game and making friends with one. Also, any kind of PC can find and ride an any kind of dragon in the same way. You ride a dragon in the same way you ride a dire wolf or a griffon or a unicorn: you make friends with it.

And there's still room for a dragon-riding subclass in the future.

So I'm not super upset about WotC not being able to redefine the PDK in this way here and now.
 


And there's still room for a dragon-riding subclass in the future.
Given WotC's pattern of behavior?

No, there isn't. The only things that get second chances are the ones they know have high demand, but they're too afraid of pissing someone off to actually publish a final thing. Psionics is the standard-bearer there, but the "spell-less" Ranger is another.
 

Shifting gears to focus on biker women would be a less dramatic turn, but still significantly more dramatic than a group of knights allying with a group of dragons and learning to ride them in D&D.
No one is suggesting D&D shouldn’t have the possibility for knights to ride dragons. (Although there’s a whole other setting about that, it’s called Dragonlance, you may have heard of it.)

Whereas the practice of dragon-riding hasn’t been common in FR nor most other D&D settings because it kind of changes the nature of dragons in those settings, from superintelligent beings into draft animals. There are power assumptions inherent in dragon-riding in these game that have been seen as problematic for 45 years already.

None of this is my primary objection to PDKs riding amethyst dragons.

The name being misleading is the initial impetus for the change.

It’s only misleading because, per your own admission, you don’t know and don’t care to learn why this group is called the “Purple Dragon Knights”. You’re giving “french fries come from France” energy here.

New and interesting things happening in a setting is not bastardizing it.

See above, re: “Downton Abbey bikini babes on motorcycles”. Your version of “new and interesting” is absolutely bastardizing to anyone invested in the existing setting, you just don’t see it because you admittedly don’t care at all about the existing setting.

Maybe I think your kitchen would be a lot more “new and interesting” with a giant hole in the floor in front of the refrigerator. I don’t care about your kitchen, but that would be super interesting to me! Surely you’d love a new and interesting pit in your kitchen floor, wouldn’t you? No? Oh, because you care about your kitchen? But I don’t care about your kitchen, so I think you kitchen is a perfectly fine place to put a new and interesting hole.

You may not like the new direction, but it’s pretty extreme to act like new developments are automatically disrespecting previous lore.

New developments do NOT automatically disrespect previous lore. But PDKs all riding around on their pet amethyst dragons certainly does! Like, why are PDKs all riding these dragons when previously they never did? And why are amethyst dragons (rare in FR, even compared to other dragons!) apparently all subservient to the PDK organization now?

People objected to this change because it’s nonsensical, not because it’s implausible. Just like motorcycles and women’s swimwear existed in Edwardian Britain, it would still be nonsensical to make bikini babes on motorcycles a major focus of Downton Abbey. Thankfully, WotC acknowledged their own mistake.

It doesn’t. I’m just one person sharing my opinion. I don’t seem to be alone in that opinion.

Cool, I guess it’s a majority vote then? That your cohort already lost because WotC scuttled the UA lore?

From the look of the art, that aspect of FR isn’t being preserved anyway. Purple Dragon Knights riding amethyst dragons looks to be a thing that is going to be happening in the story regardless. It’s just that the subclass isn’t going to be mechanically tied to them any more.

If so, whatever. Wouldn’t be the first time that art direction was more about looking cool than making sense.

Purple dragons aren’t even a thing in FR, are they?

They’re more commonly called “deep dragons” but yes they have a long history in FR. You’d know this if you cared enough to learn about FR before saying that the setting needs to be changed to become more “new and interesting”.
 


Why would you have assumed they were retconning where their name came from…? They’re not re-writing realms history, they’re advancing the timeline.

In a colossally stupid way. If anything, a retcon would be less stupid. "We are called Purple Dragon Knights for unrelated reasons, but then start to ride purple dragons so that the name fits," is painfully stupid in a way "We are called Purple Dragon Knights because we ride purple dragons," wouldn't be.

Besides, like all pet classes the UA Purple Dragon Knight was just sad. It of course had an utterly pathetic lobotomised pet that could not act on its own and had worse stats than any dragon. 5e pets are always utter disappointment, but it is even worse when it is supposed to be a dragon, and I don't know, a phlegmatic weasel.

I don't think pets being part of the class just work in 5e. Pets probably should just be NPCs that players can give some instructions. But of course that some classes have to use a huge chunk of their power budget to these baked in pets, it means you cannot give NPC pets to other characters as that breaks the balance.
 
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Psi Warrior, Arcane Archer, and Eldritch Knight are all Int.
Exactly. All magical. I do view psionics as a form of magic, just not arcane magic. Certainly, they aren't purely martial. A player wanting a martial character who is intelligent should have an option without being magical. The tactical warlord in 4e showed that there is an archetype that can be implemented. It's not even an obscure one.

Even something simple like you get 1/2 Int bonus rounded up to initiative rolls and 2 (+ Int bonus) d6 superiority dice to spend on a restricted (warlord type) manoeuvres. Plus you add your Cha bonus to the hp you heal.

Realistically, most people wouldn't have more than +2 so that's +1 initiative, 4d6 superiority dice, and 1d4+2 healing.
 
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