Push/Slide over a ledge?

[scottchiefbaker]

If an enemy is on a ledge with a railing protecting the ledge and I have an ability that let's me slide a creature on square can I push the enemy over the railing? Does the enemy get an advantage with the railing being there?

I'm sure I could just push them over if there were NO railing.

 

[Mercule]

By default, they get a save to avoid plummetting to their death.

IMC (in Sharn), I've been giving a +2 bonus to the save, if a ledge is present.

 

[Whimsical]

The next-to-last point of the Push, Pull, & Slide Forced Movement section (pg. 286) states:

Catching Yourself: If you're forced over a precipice or a pit, you can try to catch yourself before you fall. See "Falling," page 284.

 

[N0Man]

There's no official rule on the affect of railing. The default saving throw for being thrown off a ledge or something is just DC 10. However, I've seen adventures (such as in LFR) where they did mention giving a bonus to the save for having a railing around the ledge.

I'd say anywhere between a +2 to +5 bonus to the ledge is reasonable but up to the DM.

 

[Amaroq]

Yeah, I'd rule about like N0Man.

Either its a solid, high railing, in which case, nobody is getting pushed over it, or its a low railing which one could get pushed over but ought to get a pretty large bonus to one's save.

Though I could see a battlement type of thing where there's a fifty-fifty chance that you get pushed into a low spot ..

 

[Skallgrim]

What I would do, I think, with a railing, was allow you both a bonus to the save (+2 for favorable circumstances) and ALSO rule that if you saved, you didn't have to fall flat to catch yourself. You just caught yourself on the railing. If I really wanted to make it complicated, I'd probably say that if you made the saving throw JUST by the amount of bonus for the railing, then you went over the edge and are hanging prone from the railing. That way, you could have three states: falling off the edge, hanging off the railing, and safely on this side of the railing.

 

[Legildur]

AFB, so can't quote rules, but what happens if the target is already prone and then pushed over a ledge?

If they weren't prone to start, and made the save, then they would be knocked prone in the last square.

If they were already prone, then the save would only prevent the fall over the ledge? Any penalties to the saving throw?

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Yes, you still get a save - its just the "knocked prone" doesn't have much of an effect. In other words, the "knocked prone" is the result of a successful save - there is no requirement that you not be prone to get a save.

Myself, I typically have substantial railings give a reroll for the save... and you only get knocked prone if you fail the first save (and make the second, of course - otherwise a falling you would go).

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, railings would be a terrain feature, so as DM, you decide what sort of effect they have.

One DM might have railings that give a bonus to save vs knocked over in one encounter, and make it so that movement past them requires an extra square of movement in the next.

 

[Zinovia]

Generally I'd make a railing give a bonus to the save vs being pushed off, the size of the bonus depending on the type and height of the railing. If the railing were high and solid enough, it could be counted as Blocking Terrain, but that would be a really tall railing, more akin to a wall.

Blocking Terrain: Forced movement can’t move a creature through blocking terrain (page 61). Every square along the path must be a space the creature could normally occupy.

Blocking Terrain prevents movement and blocks line of sight. The characters might be able to use the Athletics skill to climb over such obstacles, but otherwise this type of terrain prevents movement. Examples: Walls, doors, impassable rubble.

I had a GM in the Ultimate Delve at GenCon push us into lava without a save, because the PHB only lists avoiding forced movement into pits and over precipices. The DMG clarifies it with the Hindering Terrain rules, but I didn't have my books with me, and it took me a bit to find the reference after the con. So keep in mind that *any* damaging terrain, or terrain that prevents movement can be avoided with a save to fall prone if you are being forced into that square.

Hindering Terrain: Forced movement can force targets into hindering terrain. Targets forced into hindering terrain receive a saving throw immediately before entering the unsafe square they are forced into. Success leaves the target prone at the edge of the square before entering the unsafe square.

Hindering Terrain prevents movement (or severely punishes it) or damages creatures that enter it, but allows line of sight.
Examples: Pits, deep water, lava, fire