D&D 5E Pushing Opponents

[Caliban]

On a more serious note, I think you need to consider the possible outcomes you want to allow as a DM and rule accordingly.

I allow an enemy and a PC to involuntarily share a space if one of them is prone. While they share the space, all attacks and ability checks are at disadvantage. (As soon as the prone person stands up, they move to an adjacent space.) If the player wants to try and drop prone and crawl through the enemy square I smack them. (The player, not the PC.)

Given that, the outcomes I can see from the attempted shove are:

I would allow the shove attempt, and if it succeeds against the character, then a second shove attempt is made with disadvantage against the ally behind him.

Possible outcomes:

a) Shove fails against the first character, no change in positions.
b) Shove succeeds against the character, fails against the ally. Character is prone in their square, and the enemy can move into their space.
c) Shove succeeds against the character, and succeeds against the ally. Character is shoved back 5 feet and is prone in the allies square.

In a narrow crowded hallway, it is possible to be knocked prone and be unable to stand up as people trample you.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

According to the rules for Moving Around Other Creatures and the Shove attack, the creature would not be pushed back into it's ally's space because Shoving a creature is only 5 feet, and entering another creature's space is difficult terrain, and thus require an additional 5 feet to do so

If it was a greater forced movement like Pushing Attack for exemple pushing back 15 feet, then it could enter, leave or even end the movement in the ally's space since it's not a willing movement.



Shoving a Creature: If you win the contest, you either knock the target prone or push it 5 feet away from you.

Moving Around Other Creatures: You can move through a nonhostile creature’s space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature’s space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature’s space is difficult terrain for you. Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.

Nowhere does it say that being pushed costs movement though. If it did it would be impossible to push a creature that has moved it's full speed during it's turn.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Nowhere does it say that being pushed costs movement though. If it did it would be impossible to push a creature that has moved it's full speed during it's turn.

It's not a matter of movement cost but distance cost so i think you're looking at it the wrong way.

The push is a number of feet moved (Push 5 feet). But over a difficult terrain every one of those feet will cost 1 extra foot. So while moving 5 feet to enter an adjacent space cost 5 feet of movement normally, over the same space it will cost 10 feet to move into while occupied by a creature or other difficult terrain. Because such forced movement doesn't ignore difficult terrain.


Difficult Terrain: Every foot of movement in difficult terrain costs 1 extra foot.

 

[Shiroiken]

The spacing rules can be a bit goofy if you stick to RAW without applying common sense. In this case, I'd rule that the Shove attempt has Disadvantage. If the Shove is successful, the target is moved back. The further creature may move to a free space without cost, or either creature may choose to go Prone. Otherwise, both targets are in a small space, and suffer the appropriate penalties. This would allow a mob to push characters into a small space, making it harder to fight.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The spacing rules can be a bit goofy if you stick to RAW without applying common sense. In this case, I'd rule that the Shove attempt has Disadvantage. If the Shove is successful, the target is moved back. The further creature may move to a free space without cost, or either creature may choose to go Prone. Otherwise, both targets are in a small space, and suffer the appropriate penalties. This would allow a mob to push characters into a small space, making it harder to fight.

Watch out. This gives a way to impose disadvantage on a third party without the third party getting to resist. Expect players to start shoving goblins into the same space as Nycaloths so they can attack the Nycaloths at advantage.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

It's not a matter of movement cost but distance cost so i think you're looking at it the wrong way.

The push is a number of feet moved (Push 5 feet). But over a difficult terrain every one of those feet will cost 1 extra foot. So while moving 5 feet to enter an adjacent space cost 5 feet of movement normally, over the same space it will cost 10 feet to move into while occupied by a creature or other difficult terrain. Because such forced movement doesn't ignore difficult terrain.


Difficult Terrain: Every foot of movement in difficult terrain costs 1 extra foot.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way, but the rules are not explicit either way. This sounds like a suitable question for Sage Advice if anyone cares enough to ask, I don't

If you play on a a grid, do you generally rule that the "shove" attack can't be used at all to push enemies in woods and similar terrain?

 

[Plaguescarred]

If you play on a a grid, do you generally rule that the "shove" attack can't be used at all to push enemies in woods and similar terrain?

Yes. Grid or not, pushing doesn't explicitly ignore difficult terrain meaning it still does follow this rule when moved this way.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

DM: Hmmm...you run forward, throwing yourself into the guard in the doorway! You can make an opposed Athletics check, he gets +2 because the guy behind him his helping him stand his ground.
Player: I got a...14
DM: He gets a...9, +2 is 11. You win! Your unexpected charge catches the guard off balance and... (rolls a Dex Save, DC 14 for the guy behind the guard...gets a measly 2!)... both he and the guy behind him tumble to the ground. Do you want to be on the left side of them, or the right?
Player: Uh...my right.
DM: You look down at your two prone foes...and hear a low growl directly behind you...

That's how I'd handle it.

See, the thing is...the rules are there for when those *specific* situations come up. If a situation comes up that is similar, you use the rule as intended... as a guideline. The whole pushing 5', size stuff, etc? Any DM worth his screen will take those rules and use them to make a ruling on how to handle this particular situation. Don't try and cram/shoehorn the situation into the rules. That way leads to madness!

Then again, I'm an old grognard and quite full of ages cantankerousness, so making snap judgements is second hand...if my players don't like it, tough noodles! Lucky for me, my players obviously do like my judgments, so it's all good!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[cmad1977]

Up to you.


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[Uller]

Unlike much of D&D, this is something you could actually try. Have a buddy push you in an open room. Now have another buddy stand 5' behind you (but not be actively helping you...just standing there waiving his arms about and saying "Mgiggle McGuffin!" like he's casting a spell. Is it any harder to push you? No? Okay then...

There is no RAW on this. So it is rulings not rules.

I would think typically you would get shoved into your ally's space. What happens from there is up to the DM given the circumstances. If the attacker moves to take your previous space and there is space behind, then your ally can shift to a new space. If your ally refuses to move then the squeezing rules now apply. Or someone goes prone...lots of things can happen.

If the ally is helping you (spent an action to do so), then you get advantage to avoid being pushed. If the shove still succeeds, then see above.

Part of the fun of D&D is DMs figuring out funny or interesting things that happen in situations like this. The rules shouldn't try to cover every contingency.