Pushing the 4th edition envelope

[Scrivener of Doom]

One thing I have done with my 4e group is to only use the even levels. For the last level-up they went from 8th to 10th and will go to 12th next. Basically it turns 4e into a 15 level game.

Now that's a really inspired idea.

(snip) I took a step further and switched up magic item tiers to just 3 (Heroic +2, Paragon +4, and Epic +6).

I've done that with magic items as well. I would rather given them something decent early on and have them feel it is special than simply throw them on the cult of Apple iPlus cycle of perpetual upgrades.
[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]: Great post again and lots of food for thought. Damn, but I can't give you XP again.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Double post.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Why not try this? First hit bloodies the minion and weakens it too. Might be a easy way to track and interesting effect.

When we roll initiative, I put all the characters and NPCs in a row in order of their initiative.
For NPcs, I use one column for the creature's total hit points, one for its current damage, and the remainder for conditions.
Minions that have the same type get only one row for them. So I avoid anything that could give them a condition other than dead (which I represent via the mini).

That's why I don't like such mechanics. But others might handle things differently .

 

[Balesir]

For NPcs, I use one column for the creature's total hit points, one for its current damage, and the remainder for conditions.
Minions that have the same type get only one row for them. So I avoid anything that could give them a condition other than dead (which I represent via the mini).

That's why I don't like such mechanics. But others might handle things differently .

I do something quite similar, but I also use "counters"* under the figures to denote bloodied creatures (including PCs), so the "bloodied/dead" type minion would work fine, for me.



*: Actually, these are the monster/NPC "pogs" that come with the Monster Vault and other "Essentials" products. They are useful because they have numbers (for tracking multiples of non-minions) and a flip side with a "red ring" to denote "bloodied". They blu-tack onto the figure bases with no problems.

 

[Manbearcat]

[MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] Don't have time to post something coherent right now so I'll attempt to get back to you tonight on your questions.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I think some of the easier things to do are mess with the short rest/long rest paradigm.

Encounters at the store did this where you only got short rests or long rests at specific points in the story.

I kind of miss a lot of the quick - "attack, hit/miss, do damage, move on" of the earlier editions so some times the "First round encounter power/encounter power and sometimes a 3rd encounter power" get old every single fight.

It's like there's nothing to showcase how awesome a triple encounter barrage is without 'boring' hit/miss/do damage rounds.

 

[RangerWickett]

I just ran the finale of my 4e campaign, which capped off at just 11th level.

**** this game. **** it and its ridiculous enemy-crushing combos. The final boss was a 15th level elite with seven level 11 allies who showed up first to wear the party down. Then once folks were sufficiently bloodied, the big bad arrived, split the party in two by creating a wall, then hurled one PC across the room and proned him with serious damage.

The prone PC (a hexblade) stood and charged, hit and dazed and weakened the baddie, then used an action point to deal more damage and restrain the enemy. The only other PC in the room (a druid) also charged, hit and knocked prone, action pointed, then hit again and imposed a penalty to attack rolls. He was now bloodied.

The big bad only had one action, so he attacked from prone, and indeed managed to hit, but only did half damage. And for his trouble he provoked an immediate reaction attack. I had him action point and attack again, which could have dropped a PC if the druid hadn't used an interrupt to grant the hexblade a bonus to defenses.

The two PCs attacked again. The big bad was dazed again. I spontaneously gave the big bad another 100 hit points so he could actually do something. The other two PCs managed to circumvent the wall and came within range, then action pointed and weakened the big bad again, leaving him with only 50 of the bonus HP left.

I Bull-Sh***ed a power for the villain where he cracked the ceiling of the whole dungeon, so that only his own telekinesis was holding it up, and if they killed him it would fall on all of them. He had to action point to stand up.

The PCs (quite cleverly, to be honest), hit him with some minor attacks that gave him a variety of "ongoing damage," then opened a short-range teleportal and ran through it. At the start of the villain's turn, the ongoing damage did him in, and he only crushed himself.

Satisfying for the players, sure, but only because I wildly broke the rules. PC powers -- in particular their ability to shut down enemies with daze, weaken, and stuff like "slide and knock prone" -- make it impossible to challenge the players with even a level +4 encounter. And that encounter involved a lot of enemies which slowed down play.

TL;DR -- Get rid of dazed and weakened, and make the ability to shut down enemies much rarer.

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, I normally only print a sheet every other level. I've found it works best to print only the odd levels, though. All it takes is a few notes to indicate things that change every level, e.g. hit point totals.

Interesting- my players often only print the even levels, since that's where all the numbers change and new feats etc. come in, as well as stat bumps. They just jot down their new powers at even levels.

Why not try this? First hit bloodies the minion and weakens it too. Might be a easy way to track and interesting effect.

Any tracking at all is too much tracking when it's a minion, in my opinion. But that's probably a matter of taste.

I like the of giving some minions a "make a save to avoid dying if it takes damage without being hit" ability. That would help with zones and auras and stuff.

 

[keterys]

A single elite really isn't designed to take on a whole party - two PCs being able to completely flummox one is pretty much "working as intended".

That said, I do think it'd be nice to see a way for elites and solos to be more condition resistant. One method I've used is to give notable big bads multiple turns and the ability to drop something bad at the end of their turn.

So, if he'd acted twice per round and dropped the daze on the first action, stood up and did something real on the 2nd, each round, that would have been more notable.

Sounds like an awesome finish, with the ongoing and the portal, though. Good deal, that.

 

[Storminator]

I have 7 PCs, so combos start to stack up pretty quick in my game. If I were looking to make a "L+4" encounter for my 11th level party, that would be 3 L15 Elites and 4 L15 Standards. That's just how tricked out my players are.

So by my players standards you just threw a speed bump encounter at the party.

PS