D&D General Putting The Awe Back In Magic

The burgher himself unlocked her shackles, making a grand show of producing the right key from the thick ring at his belt. The oldest, most ornate, and most worn of the bunch. He gave it to two of the younger men and waved at them to free the prisoner, taking himself well back and away to watch them struggle with the old locks. And as the heavy metal cuffs fell from her wrists to the stones...

The burgher himself unlocked her shackles, making a grand show of producing the right key from the thick ring at his belt. The oldest, most ornate, and most worn of the bunch.

He gave it to two of the younger men and waved at them to free the prisoner, taking himself well back and away to watch them struggle with the old locks.

And as the heavy metal cuffs fell from her wrists to the stones underfoot with a clang and a rattle, he sneered and announced, “I’ll believe in this mighty magic when I see it, and not a moment before.”

His words were meant for the watching men of the town, not the freed captive, but he turned when they were done to see how she took them.

The young woman of few words met his bristle-browed gaze with a slight smile. Then she shrugged, turned away from him and the men of the town in a swirl of dark tattered robes, and murmured something swift and liquid under her breath, words they couldn’t quite catch—or that were in a tongue unknown.

And the air around her swiftly-weaving fingertips was suddenly alive with sparks, racing motes of light that spiraled down to the floor in front of her worn-toed boots like fireflies caught in a whirlpool.

And then burst with the roar of a dozen lions into a raging pillar of white flames taller than the loftiest towers of the Castle, a pillar that cracked and melted—melted, by All The Gods!—flagstones it spun across as it marched away from her to strike the towering black gates.

And with shrieks as ear-piercing as they were brief, those thick armour plates and the man-thick timbers that wore them were gone, locks and hinges and stout door-bars and all—simply…gone.

Leaving only an empty doorframe, its arch scorched by the vanished whorl of flames.

As the men of the town all stared at it in disbelief, a few shards of blackened stone, cracked away from the massive blocks of the arch by the heat of that brief magic, plummeted from the arch to shatter on the blackened flagstones. Clack, clack…klak.

“Well, now,” the burgher stammered, his voice seeming far away. And shorn of all bluster. Everyone turned to hear his verdict.

And blinked at what they beheld. Despite his paunch and wrinkled old age, the leader of the town had somehow taken himself half across the chamber in a trice, to the grudging shelter of the lee of an old stone pillar. “Well, now.”


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Magic.

The ‘not real’ part of our fantasy roleplaying games, and fiction.

Yet also an essential part; we feel vaguely cheated when it’s not there, even if it’s scarce or long-fallen from old days of greatness. The element that makes so many monsters dangerous and feared, and that keeps many imaginary worlds from being ruled by the brute who commands the biggest, nastiest gang of brutes (er, king with the biggest army).

Yet the very same precise codification of magic, its workings, and the details of its clashings that make it understood and somhow more “fair” around the gaming table has, by the nature of exhaustive explanation, robbed magic of its chief glory: awe.

That’s a shame, because awe is one of the emotions (or moods, if you prefer) that we get to feel least in our lives, especially in this age of information, when most people can swiftly learn a lot about anything and so strip away its mystery, the lure of the unknown, in short order.

Obviously magic, like everything else, will have more awe clinging to it when it’s mysterious rather than known to nigh-everyone in full detail. When the game master’s descriptions of what a spell looks like when it manifests, and what it does, are attentively listened to by everyone around the gaming table—because everyone’s eager (nay, desperate) to learn all they can.

Rather than just flipping to the right page of a rulebook to read all about it. Which points at this: one road to this sort of mystery that’s available only to game masters running their own rules systems or substantially modifying published rules systems is to keep the practical details of magic (how spells are cast, the gestures and ingredients and incantations—verbal, somatic, and material components in D&D) secret. Things to be observed when others cast magic, and noted down in one’s own magical workbooks, or said by NPCs who are paid much in coin and service to do so, or paid even more to train a PC in how to cast and wield a lone spell.

This precious secrecy will tend to make those who can cast spells do so in private, or in public only in emergencies or for a lot of compensation.

It also, at a single stroke, makes magic, and its lore, the most prized treasure in a game.

Another way of making magic more awe-inspiring is to have it vary in effects from place to place, or by who or what is involved.

If a stranger wizard casts a recognizable spell and it shakes the valley rather than snapping in midair like a firecracker, there’ll be instant awe. Or at least respect, if not fear.

If a spell that’s supposed to force open a door is cast with the aid of a grimy old bone carving that looks small in the caster’s palm, and destroys the door and the wall around it rather than just cracking the door open, again there’ll be a reaction that could soon be awe.

And if a spell cast in a sinister ruin deep in a gloomy forest either sputters feebly or splits the heavens with a deafening roar, rather than conjuring its usual merry lantern-flame, awe won’t be far off.

Theatrics help with awe. Tomes rising out of chests with menacing slowness, all by themselves, and opening as eerie glows kindle about their pages, said pages turning by themselves as deep, booming voices speak from those same books, demanding to know who disturbs them.

Voices that speak suddenly out of empty air to herald the awakening of magic. For example: “Ah, more intruders. Let the deaths begin.”

Another way of making magic feel special and more precious is to keep it scarce. Or needing as a focus or consumed component in its castings something rare (the grave-dust or a bone from the grave of a truly good person, or a dead mage) or valuable (a gem of a certain type, size, and flawlessness). Or draining the life-force of the caster or a slave or pet or willing third party. Or leaving the caster vulnerable, by rendering them unconscious or physically weak, or revealing one of their most precious memories, for every spell cast, as vivid holographic moving images in midair, brightly glowing, for everyone on the scene to see.

Magic should have a cost. Perhaps not a price in coins, but it must be paid for. My players will not soon forget the wrinkled old near-skeleton who sat on her throne shrouded in cobwebs—until they approached, and she cast a spell that flung open many doors that her courtiers were hurled through unwillingly, into her presence. Courtiers who began to shrivel into lifeless husks with every spell she cast—‘hung,’ waiting spells unleashed by a lone word each—as she grew younger and more alive and vigorous with each casting, the adventurers suffered under the clawing damages of her magics, and her court died around her to pay for it all. The thief of the party had hopes that she could be outlasted; the party could run her out of courtiers to drain. Hopes that were dashed when the floor beneath the heroes’ boots opened up to dump them into caverns below where dragons were magically chained—dragons that withered even as they attacked the PCs, their life-force stolen by the queen on her throne above.

The throne, of course, was itself magical, and in the end soared into the skies to enable her escape from the adventurers, to scheme and ready herself for their next meeting.

The awe came back then, when the queen’s magic whisked dead dragon after dragon aloft to follow her. The thief wanted to grab and ride the last one, to go along, but the rest of the PCs were a trifle saner, and grabbed him and held him back.

So I could dole out more awe, on a game night to come.
 

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Ed Greenwood

Ed Greenwood

Forgotten Realms Creator

pemerton

Legend
Systems are systems - they'll all have mechanical characteristics, effects, and outcomes. Any system runs the risk of being fairly mundane if we think of it in those terms. That's why it makes sense to think in terms of the impact on the narrative in pemerton's posts and the description of the magic as in Imaculata's post. They're both an improvement over just thinking in mechanical terms of #dx damage with DC xx as a saving throw and checking off xx number of hit points from target A.
I think your claim isn't self-evident, and probably isn't true. Your last sentence in particular suggests a pretty narrow class of systems, that deal with manipulations of numbers (like damage and hp in D&D) that don't in any way correlate to the fiction.

Consider the AW move open your brain:

When you open your brain to the world’s psychic maelstrom, roll+weird. On a hit, the MC will tell you something new and
interesting about the current situation, and might ask you a question or two; answer them.

On a 10+, the MC will give you good detail. On a 7–9, the MC will give you an impression. If you already know all there is to know, the MC will tell you that.​

As is typical for a PbtA game, "If the sum total is 6 or less, that’s a miss. . . . [T]ell the players this: “on a miss, I’ll tell you what happens.” If you want, just so nobody has any incorrect expectations, you can add this: “…and I promise you won’t like it.” (The move is from p 88; the quote is from p 12.)

I don't think any sort of elaborate descrition or narration is necessary to the adjudication of this move. When the GM (or MC in the game's own terminology) gives an impression, or gives good detail, that needn't be presented in any particularly elaborate style. Page 204 gives the following advice on how to handle this move as a GM:

At first when you ask questions, they can be simply to establish facts and images, questions like “what’s the psychic maelstrom like (for you)?” and “how do you learn things from it?” As the game progresses, though, ask questions about the characters’ lives, pasts, psyches, souls. “Who was your first kiss? Tell about it.” “Are you happy?” “What’s the worst hurt you’ve suffered that you can’t remember?” “If you could take one conversation back, undo it, what would it be?” “If you were to kill Bran right this minute, how would you do it?” Make time for the players’ answers, and don’t let the players squirm out of them just
because they never thought about it. “I know you don’t know who your first kiss was. Make it up!”

Also take full advantage of the characters’ open brains to barf forth apocalyptica. What if there’s somebody in the maelstrom that they know? What if some part of the maelstrom stays inside their brain when they close it again? What if the maelstrom sweeps a certain key memory out of their brain while it’s in there, or gives them a brand new fresh one?​

I don't think there's too much risk of this becoming fairly mundane.

Conversely, the limitation that faces some D&D magic, or at least some approaches to D&D magic - as I've posted upthread - is that it doesn't connect to or engage the fiction. This is not something that is related to the elaborateness of narration.
 

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nevin

Hero
You are simply wrong. Science is pretty clear. Humans mirror the people around them. Adapting to the group is a way to improve survival chances. If the DM's narration, body language and story are engaged, creative and he/she is obviously enjoying what they are doing that sparks the players creativity, engagement and desire to add to the story. Or as the song says. "you get what you give" You can disagree all you want but go do a little digging the science is pretty close to proved at this point.
 


billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
I think your claim isn't self-evident, and probably isn't true. Your last sentence in particular suggests a pretty narrow class of systems, that deal with manipulations of numbers (like damage and hp in D&D) that don't in any way correlate to the fiction.

I'd say they obviously correlate to the fiction. They're obviously doing something that is part of the game's fiction. Did it injure the target? Did it control the target? If there's an observable game effect, there's an observable effect in the fiction. (Unless you're using some weird pemertonian definition of "the fiction" that somehow doesn't mean that things happening in the game aren't part of "the fiction". And if so, we're clearly not speaking anything approximating the same language - so we'd be done here.)
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
On a related note, I'm reading Into the Wyrd and Wild and it's fantastic. It's a system neutral (5E/OSR targeted) horror/fantasy approach to exploring the darkest woods. Best 2nd pillar book I've read in a long time. Well written, great illustrations, and tightly kept on message. I'd give it two thumbs up, and then an entirely unexpected third thumb that grew the last time I was deep in the Wild. If you want to put some awe and terror back into your exploration phase, take a look. Just reading it makes me feel like I should be filming myself on a shaky handheld camera and freaking out about the things in the woods.
 


pemerton

Legend
pemerton said:
Your last sentence in particular suggests a pretty narrow class of systems, that deal with manipulations of numbers (like damage and hp in D&D) that don't in any way correlate to the fiction.
I'd say they obviously correlate to the fiction.
A fireball spell is cast. The damage roll is 30 hp. An ogre is in the AoE. The referee rolls the ogre's save, and succeeds. The ogre therefore takes 15 hp of damage, and as a result has 30 hp left.

What happened in the fiction? (1) We can't tell. And (2), whatever the GM narrates won't affect subsequent resolution: whether the GM narrates that the ogre is burned, or not, doesn't affect subsequent resolution; whether the GM narrates that the ogre dodged, or not, doesn't affect subsequent resolution (eg doesn't change positioning); etc. All that affects subsequent resolution is the change in the hp tally, which is a thing in the real world but nothing in particular in the shared fiction.

These sorts of systems - of which D&D is (I think) the best-known example - may well be ones in which, as per your earlier post, there may be a "risk of being fairly mundane if we think of it in those terms", that is, in terms of "mechanical characteristics, effects, and outcomes".

That's why I pointed to a system in which the resolution is not purely in terms of mechanical characteristics, effects and outcomes.
 

A fireball spell is cast. The damage roll is 30 hp. An ogre is in the AoE. The referee rolls the ogre's save, and succeeds. The ogre therefore takes 15 hp of damage, and as a result has 30 hp left.

Just a reminder, we are talking about putting the awe back in magic. If you simply narrate the outcome of the fireball as mechanical as above, I think we can all agree that there isn't a lot of awe.

But wouldn't you agree that better narration would make add more awe to the fireball spell?
Alternatively, if it also caused destruction and set things on fire, wouldn't that add more to the sense of awe?
 

pemerton

Legend
Just a reminder, we are talking about putting the awe back in magic. If you simply narrate the outcome of the fireball as mechanical as above, I think we can all agree that there isn't a lot of awe.

But wouldn't you agree that better narration would make add more awe to the fireball spell?
Alternatively, if it also caused destruction and set things on fire, wouldn't that add more to the sense of awe?
I'm arguing against the idea that narration will introduce awe into the game. Narration is about the players as audience to the GM; but the awe in RPGing comes from playing the game and engaging the fiction, not from listening to the referee.

If a fireball also caused destruction and set things on fire, that could be interesting, yes. But that would be a mechanical chang, at least according to a number of poster the last time I saw this issue discussed. Likewise it woudl be a mechanical change to treat the ogre's successful Reflex save as changing its position.

If we call narration that doesn't actually make any downstream difference to framing or resolution mere colour, then I'm saying that mere colour is not the way to put more awe into magic.
 

I'm arguing against the idea that narration will introduce awe into the game. Narration is about the players as audience to the GM; but the awe in RPGing comes from playing the game and engaging the fiction, not from listening to the referee.

I would say it comes from both. RPG'ing is all about being an audience and a participant at the same time.
 

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