TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

Consider this a freebie.
ken

Thanks Ken!

Your kind and unsolicited support is appreciated

BTW, give me your snailmail addy again, so I can sent the check as promised.

Heh,
Gary

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

I know I will be
Ken

Gary,

Do you think it is possible to put the Keep on the Borderlands and the Caves of Chaos on the Yggsburgh wilderness map? Where do you think might be a good location for it? At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, KOTB is my favorite adventure, whether playing or GMing.

 

[Gray Mouser]

Gary might be thinking of "In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords" by Laurence Schick. (module A4) in reference to the party of "buff" adventurers.

That's the one. IMHO, the Slave Lords series is a great adventure arc. The only problem is surviving A2 with the fort full of hobgoblins! ONe wrong move and you have a major battle on your hands!

Gray Mouser

 

[Storm Raven]

Okay, you know better than I do. I am left wqith the nagging question: If the players aren't concerned about power gaming, wish only to create "stories," why should they worry/express concern about level limits

Maybe because they don't want an artificially imposed end to the progression of the story?

 

[Storm Raven]

I don't regret that in the least. If demi-humans, already given some advantages, were as able as humans, the world would be dominated by them, and there goes the whole of having a relatively familiar world setting in regards to what cultures and societies one will find in control. So a demi-human is unlimited in thief level only, as that is a class not destined to control the fate of major groups or states.

This argument only holds true if you assume that nonhumans are going to be designed with inherent advantages over humans as a baseline. And even for that situation, it has always seemed to me like a very clunky solution to the perceived problem. Why weren't demi-humans designed to be relatively equal in advantage to humans from the get-go rather than creating level limits?

As for limiting human PCs to one class or possibly a dual class, the game is supposed to be about heroic people, not comic book super heroes.

And also not about arguably multiclassed characters like Conan? I can come up with a dozen characters from mainstream fantasy literature that are best represented by multiclassed combinations, and none of them are comic book superheroes.

 

[Gray Mouser]

Actually, I don't recall, but your idea of raising the level limit by two for a single-classed eemi-himan character is reasonable, and upping it by another step would be acceptable is the character had exceptional stats.

Thanks for the input, Gary. I thought I had the copy of Dragon at home but apparently not. Maybe it's in storage at my parents, still. The title of the column, iirc, was something like "The Last Word on Demihumans."

Indeed, I do not believe that having unlimited levels for demi-humans can support a humanocentric campaign. without humanocentrism, there are no sources availabel to the GM to create his world setting.

I agree. Can't recall any mythologies that have elves, dwarves, etc. as having the upper hand against humans. Nor any fantasy literature, although I don't read as much of it as I used to.

As for the depiction of elves, I am not one who looks to Tolkien. D&D elves are not super beings, not taller or generally more powerful than humans. I used myth, legend, folklore, fairy tales, and authored fantasy such as Poul Anderson's works for inspiration in regards the paramaters of elves. Of course, the varieties develped do reflect the Professor's work. after all, I desired to have the game to appeal to his fans.

Cheers,
Gary

Heh, I remember reading your description of Elves in the PHB and DMG back in the day and thinking, "Hey, that's not right!" Even by the time I was, oh, 10 or 11 JRRT's description of Elves had really influenced my take on them as a race. The differences between JRRT's elves and D&D elves can be seen rather clearly, I think, in the instance of the Grugach!. I don't think Tolkien would ever have described his elves like that. As for appealing to his fans (of which I am one) I do like the HIgh Elf, Grey Elf, Wood Elf distinctions (although Wood Elves are probably my favorite in D&D). I found the additions of Aquatic Elves and Valley Elves (which make an appearance in my homebrew world, too) to be pretty cool.

And who could forget the Drow? Who, by the way, are quite evil and malicious in my campaign, with absolutely no teenage-like angst about serving Lolth and the other demons )

Gray Mouser

 

[Gray Mouser]

Maybe because they don't want an artificially imposed end to the progression of the story?

WHo says you have to stop adventuring once you hit the level limit?

Besides, if they want to keep advancing just take Thief as a multi-class.

Gray Mouser

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Think it was A1, Slave Pits of the Undercity if i recall correctly. First module I ever bought. It brought me out of the grid paper dungeons that I drew for my players and opened my DM eyes quite a bit.

Maybe I'll dig it out and convert it to C&C.

Thanks, and that's it

Nonting much to convert it to the C&C game other than the ACs, eh? the remainder can be winged easily.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Storm Raven]

WHo says you have to stop adventuring once you hit the level limit?

Note the word "progression"?

Besides, if they want to keep advancing just take Thief as a multi-class.

All powerful elves are really good thieves? I don't buy it.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

I disagree. I think that 3rd Edition (however you feel about it) did an excellent job of making humans in to a dominant species without limiting advancement, by giving them distinct advantages in the form of greater flexibility and ambition. Castles and Crusades does a similar thing by granting them an all-important extra Prime.

I will firmly put forth my opinion that level limits for demi-humans are not necessary to support a humanocentric campaign.

You are free to believe as you wish. My opinion is this: I think 3E is made for power gamers and relies on seek & destroy for its appeal, so having verisimilitude in any setting in which the system is employed is not of much importance. The changes made in 3E simply up the power of humans, making them more like supermen than the older systems allowed.

That said, if you like it, you are not wrong

Cheers,
Gary