Q: Adamantine/Mithral

[Shin Okada]

From DMG p242 &243

"Weapons and armor fashioned from adamantine are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the master work quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor"

"Weapons and armor fashioned from mithral are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the master work quality does not affect the enhancement bonus of weapons or the armor check penalty of armor"

I can't really understand those sentences.

The first part "treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times", is saying that to create an item from adamantine/mithral, the creator must spend a period of times as if it were a masterwork item, right?

Then,does weapons/armor fashioned from adamantine are always master work? Or are there non-masterwork adamantine/mithral item and masterwork adamantine/mithral item?

And, I can't really understand what the latter part trying to say. We all know that attack bonus from masterwork and attack bonus from enhancement bonus do not stack. But what does "weapons or the armor check penalty of armor" part means? Does it just saying that all the magic armor are masterwork and thus always have 1 better check penalty and it is the same as mundane masterwork armor? Or does this sentence saying that reduction of armor check penalty from masterwork quality and reduction of armor check penalty from being mithral do not stack?

 

[lord_banus]

I think basically they are saying that it takes longer to make but isn't masterwork. So that implies that you could make a masterwork mithril weapon... or a normal one. It does raise the issue of how long it takes to make a MW item from these materials.

Thats my thoughts anyway

 

[Felix]

My take:

Making weapons or armor with Adamantine or Mithral take as long to forge as masterwork weapons or armor using steel. A/M equipment does not gain a masterwork bonus (attack bonus for weapons, acp reduction for armor), but they do gain the bonuses for being made from that material.

This also implies that "normal" weapons or armor made of A/M cannot be enchanted - they are not masterwork.

Further, there can be masterwork weapons or armor made of A/M that can be enchanted. The bonuses from being masterwork do not stack with the material bonuses, they only gain the ability to be enchanted.

How one decides how long it takes to forge masterwork items from A/M is somewhat beyond my knowledge. Twice as long? I'm sure someone will supply a method shortly.

 

[magnas_veritas]

The first part "treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times", is saying that to create an item from adamantine/mithral, the creator must spend a period of times as if it were a masterwork item, right?[/B]

Yep. You have to accumulate up to the GP cost of the material. Think of it as taking a really irritating amount of time to forge into the right shape.

Hrm...I wonder if they'll change the Craft rules in 3.5?

Then,does weapons/armor fashioned from adamantine are always master work? Or are there non-masterwork adamantine/mithral item and masterwork adamantine/mithral item?

I would interpret with the former...adamantine/mithral/other funky high-quality materials would render the item automatically masterwork...note that the sample items in the DMG include the MW costs.

And, I can't really understand what the latter part trying to say. (Cut for space) Or does this sentence saying that reduction of armor check penalty from masterwork quality and reduction of armor check penalty from being mithral do not stack?

That is correct. Looking in the DMG, elven chain (i.e. mithral chainmail) has an Armor Check penalty of -2, which is three less than normal chainmail. If the MW and material qualities stacked, elven chain would have an Armor Check penalty of -1.

Brad

 

[theoremtank]

A while back I recall engaging in discussions and getting answers on the subject of mithral and adamantine items from the Sage and Sean K. Reynolds. There is concensus on this subject officially.

The summary is that all weapons and armor made of Mithral and Adamantine ARE masterwork. That is, they are ready to be enchanted. You cannot make a nonmasterwork suit of mithral armor. Moreover, you cannot make a regular or shotty suit of mithral chain. Of course the reduction of the armor check penalty for a masterwork suit of armor does not stack with the reduction to the armor check penalty for a suit of armor being mithral. The better bonus is taken of the two.

Sorry I don't have any links to back this up as I am recalling this from shortly after the release of the Dungeon Master's Guide.

 

[Anubis]

The summary is that all weapons and armor made of Mithral and Adamantine ARE masterwork. That is, they are ready to be enchanted. You cannot make a nonmasterwork suit of mithral armor. Moreover, you cannot make a regular or shotty suit of mithral chain.

This here is absolutely correct and is the answer. In fact, it is stated as such somewhere in one of the core books, although I can't remember where. Anyway, this is how it is.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Re: Re: Q: Adamantine/Mithral

Hrm...I wonder if they'll change the Craft rules in 3.5?

I think they will. At least, they will speed up the process, I think. Look at Craft in d20 Modern: they have creation times attached to the items, and those times are much more player-friendly than those the D&D Craft skill has.

 

[Datt]

Re: Re: Q: Adamantine/Mithral

Yep. You have to accumulate up to the GP cost of the material. Think of it as taking a really irritating amount of time to forge into the right shape.

No you don't have to otherwise it would take years to create a mithril or adamantime item. It says you use the cost of MW to determine the creation time. They did this so that non hundreds of years living characters could actually create an item in thier lifetime. Which to me actually ruins the specialness of M/A. I like the idea that only dwarfs or elfs have the time and paticence to create a M/A item.

In the OA FAQ on page 3 it says:

The dastana and chahar-aina each have an armor check penalty of 1. What armor check penalties do masterwork versions of these items have? What armor check penalty would mithral versions of these items have?
The armor check penalty for any item of masterwork armor is lessened by 1. (See page 113 in the Player™s Handbook.) A masterwork dastana or chahar-aina has an armor check penalty of 0.
Mithral lessens armor check penalties by 3. (See page 243 in the DUNGEON MASTER™s Guide.) The minimum armor check penalty is 0. The reduction for mithral and for masterwork stacks.

So I would say that yes you can have a MW Mithril set of Armor.

 

[The Souljourner]

Re: Re: Re: Q: Adamantine/Mithral

In the OA FAQ on page 3 it says:

The reduction for mithral and for masterwork stacks.

So I would say that yes you can have a MW Mithril set of Armor.

Nope. The OA FAQ is seriously f'ed up here. Armor made of Mithril IS masterwork. Making a masterwork item masterwork.... does nothing. It already is. This is very clear everywhere else. I don't know who wrote that line in the OA FAQ, but they should be shot.

-The Souljourner

 

[magnas_veritas]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Q: Adamantine/Mithral

Nope. The OA FAQ is seriously f'ed up here. Armor made of Mithril IS masterwork. Making a masterwork item masterwork.... does nothing. It already is. This is very clear everywhere else. I don't know who wrote that line in the OA FAQ, but they should be shot.

-The Souljourner

That line directly contradicts the DMG listing for adamantine and mithral. Sheesh.

Brad